On the Futility of Conversing With Feminists
The feminists cannot be pried apart from their fixed ideations and dogmas. One may certainly undertake to display by reasoned steps the folly of their doctrines, and indeed plenty of us have talked ourselves blue in the face - or typed ourselves into carpal tunnel syndrome - in the course of such efforts. Within our own sphere, we've grown painfully wise to all of this over the course of time. We at first believed that we could somehow convince them of the heinous error of their thinking, or if not convince them at least confute them and shame them into silence. But alas, the contrary outcome has rewarded our labors. Their obstinacy grows steadily more entrenched even as the baneful effect of feminist theory and its practical application becomes apparent, and "throwing facts at them" is consistently and perpetually to no avail.
By virtue of our long-standing debates with feminists and collaborationists, we've become eye-glazingly familiar with their arsenal of argumentative tricks.
Initially, they will bank upon the assumption that their interlocutors are naive or stupid, but when they get so entangled in the meshes that no easy exit offers itself, they will suddenly turn into simpletons - they will play dumb; they will act innocent; they will pretend that they don't know what is going on. All right, I am willing to allow that at least some of them genuinely don't know what is going on - but plenty of them know perfectly well what they are about.
And so, feigning not to comprehend the counter-arguments of their opponents, they will slip out of their skins like moulting serpents and slither away to a different sector of discussion altogether - one where they believe they hold at least a temporary advantage. In other words, they will change the subject, hoping that the abruptness of the shift will boggle the brain of their opponent and throw him off his balance.
The feminists will postulate certain axiomatic platitudes, and if you acknowledge these then they will transfer the application of such principles to fundamentally different issues on a different level of discourse. If you confront the feminists with their chicanery they will wriggle out of it once more, and you will labor in vain to wring any binding statement from them - any "commitment". If you try to gain a coherent grasp upon what they are saying, you will clutch only dung and quicksilver - and this will immediately squirt between your fingers and reunite with itself an instant later in the deceitful aspect of something solid. If, owing to the presence of impartial observers, the feminists feel obligated to concede your point, they will develop amnesia a day or so later and they will repeat their former arguments as if the dialogue in question had never even happened. It will be as if you were climbing a hill of mud where you can never gain ground because you slide backward with every step you take.
The feminists will respond to any brief, concise, carefully constructed statement of yours by means of the five-hundred gallon treatment: dumping a bewildering mass of emotionally-based arguments, non-sequiturs, personal imputations and lightning-swift logical fallacies upon you so that you are buried ten feet deep and cannot adequately dig your way out. Your failure to do so will inspire them to declare their own victory. And if by superhuman exertion you fisk ALL of their words, exhaustively and with nuance, they will repeat the original process through infinite rounds, and with each round the mass of verbiage balloons bigger and bigger - and you will never win!
We have learned, gradually but definitively, through hard experience infinitely repeated, to think very poorly of feminists. The vile, radical ones are bad enough - but at least they lay it on the line so that you can see it plainly. Give them points for their more honest style of dishonesty! You are doubtless familiar with the time-worn bromide that "not all feminists are like that!" And that is just the point, for the fact that some feminists are "like that" makes it unnecessary for all of them to be so! The ones who seem personable and charming are the worst, for their deceitful core is buried layers deep in further refinements of deceit - like a blanket of stale, synthetic cake-frosting. Their offense is simply that of complicity - on any level whatsoever - in the feminist project. Owing to such complicity, they are living a lie.
The futility of conversing with feminists as individuals in the microcosm of daily life, scales up quite naturally into the macrocosm - or what you would call the macro-political. It is equally futile for us to converse (at least for debating purposes) with feminism as such. Feminism - as a movement and as an ideology - operates from essentially the same bag of tricks as any individual feminist you might happen to be arguing with. The goal of feminism as a movement is to force men collectively into the same condition of head-spinning befuddlement (and vulnerability to suggestion) which the lone feminist seeks to inflict on the individual non-feminist male. Brotherman, feminism is NOT YOUR FRIEND!
What then, is to be done? Rouse the sleeping dragon of male political consciousness by simply telling the world the nasty truth about feminism. Then, sit back and mark what must predictably transpire.
Watch how people mock them! Watch how people disrespect them! Watch how people permit them no quarter! Watch how people permit them no rest! Watch how people make them the butt of jokes, and incite others to do likewise! Watch how people turn their lives into a bottomless quagmire of cognitive dissonance! Watch how people inflict upon them a future of never-ending intellectual harassment! Watch how people set stumbling-blocks upon their path! Watch how people engineer the entire culture to their detriment, even as they have done to the entire male population! Watch how the world rallies against them, and puts them perpetually on the defensive!
Watch how the poison of feminism comes back upon the feminists themselves, and grievously sickens them!
It is for the best of all concerned that matters come to pass in the fashion stated above, for any other scenario would be tangibly less desirable by virtue of the chaotic and absurdist character it would possess.
We know that sweet reason and gentle persuasion are lost upon these cultic ideologues. They have relinquished their license to walk unchallenged upon planet Earth. And from henceforth, everywhere they wander they may accordingly expect to bear a burden of cynical scrutiny and impolite queries concerning their intentions and their motivations. They have called down these troubles most abundantly upon their own heads, and I for one shall hold no sympathy in stock on their account.
If they are wise, the feminists will learn to not call themselves feminists; they will contrive somehow to misplace that tainted term, setting it somewhere in deep storage under piles of boxes and assorted clutter where they cannot easily lay their hands upon it. This will motivate them to live honestly within the framework of the ecumenical human condition, and eventually they will learn to get along just fine without the word feminist, and possibly to embrace some more superficial form of evil, rather than one so cancerous upon the very root of life itself.
http://tinyurl.com/yue572
By virtue of our long-standing debates with feminists and collaborationists, we've become eye-glazingly familiar with their arsenal of argumentative tricks.
Initially, they will bank upon the assumption that their interlocutors are naive or stupid, but when they get so entangled in the meshes that no easy exit offers itself, they will suddenly turn into simpletons - they will play dumb; they will act innocent; they will pretend that they don't know what is going on. All right, I am willing to allow that at least some of them genuinely don't know what is going on - but plenty of them know perfectly well what they are about.
And so, feigning not to comprehend the counter-arguments of their opponents, they will slip out of their skins like moulting serpents and slither away to a different sector of discussion altogether - one where they believe they hold at least a temporary advantage. In other words, they will change the subject, hoping that the abruptness of the shift will boggle the brain of their opponent and throw him off his balance.
The feminists will postulate certain axiomatic platitudes, and if you acknowledge these then they will transfer the application of such principles to fundamentally different issues on a different level of discourse. If you confront the feminists with their chicanery they will wriggle out of it once more, and you will labor in vain to wring any binding statement from them - any "commitment". If you try to gain a coherent grasp upon what they are saying, you will clutch only dung and quicksilver - and this will immediately squirt between your fingers and reunite with itself an instant later in the deceitful aspect of something solid. If, owing to the presence of impartial observers, the feminists feel obligated to concede your point, they will develop amnesia a day or so later and they will repeat their former arguments as if the dialogue in question had never even happened. It will be as if you were climbing a hill of mud where you can never gain ground because you slide backward with every step you take.
The feminists will respond to any brief, concise, carefully constructed statement of yours by means of the five-hundred gallon treatment: dumping a bewildering mass of emotionally-based arguments, non-sequiturs, personal imputations and lightning-swift logical fallacies upon you so that you are buried ten feet deep and cannot adequately dig your way out. Your failure to do so will inspire them to declare their own victory. And if by superhuman exertion you fisk ALL of their words, exhaustively and with nuance, they will repeat the original process through infinite rounds, and with each round the mass of verbiage balloons bigger and bigger - and you will never win!
We have learned, gradually but definitively, through hard experience infinitely repeated, to think very poorly of feminists. The vile, radical ones are bad enough - but at least they lay it on the line so that you can see it plainly. Give them points for their more honest style of dishonesty! You are doubtless familiar with the time-worn bromide that "not all feminists are like that!" And that is just the point, for the fact that some feminists are "like that" makes it unnecessary for all of them to be so! The ones who seem personable and charming are the worst, for their deceitful core is buried layers deep in further refinements of deceit - like a blanket of stale, synthetic cake-frosting. Their offense is simply that of complicity - on any level whatsoever - in the feminist project. Owing to such complicity, they are living a lie.
The futility of conversing with feminists as individuals in the microcosm of daily life, scales up quite naturally into the macrocosm - or what you would call the macro-political. It is equally futile for us to converse (at least for debating purposes) with feminism as such. Feminism - as a movement and as an ideology - operates from essentially the same bag of tricks as any individual feminist you might happen to be arguing with. The goal of feminism as a movement is to force men collectively into the same condition of head-spinning befuddlement (and vulnerability to suggestion) which the lone feminist seeks to inflict on the individual non-feminist male. Brotherman, feminism is NOT YOUR FRIEND!
What then, is to be done? Rouse the sleeping dragon of male political consciousness by simply telling the world the nasty truth about feminism. Then, sit back and mark what must predictably transpire.
Watch how people mock them! Watch how people disrespect them! Watch how people permit them no quarter! Watch how people permit them no rest! Watch how people make them the butt of jokes, and incite others to do likewise! Watch how people turn their lives into a bottomless quagmire of cognitive dissonance! Watch how people inflict upon them a future of never-ending intellectual harassment! Watch how people set stumbling-blocks upon their path! Watch how people engineer the entire culture to their detriment, even as they have done to the entire male population! Watch how the world rallies against them, and puts them perpetually on the defensive!
Watch how the poison of feminism comes back upon the feminists themselves, and grievously sickens them!
It is for the best of all concerned that matters come to pass in the fashion stated above, for any other scenario would be tangibly less desirable by virtue of the chaotic and absurdist character it would possess.
We know that sweet reason and gentle persuasion are lost upon these cultic ideologues. They have relinquished their license to walk unchallenged upon planet Earth. And from henceforth, everywhere they wander they may accordingly expect to bear a burden of cynical scrutiny and impolite queries concerning their intentions and their motivations. They have called down these troubles most abundantly upon their own heads, and I for one shall hold no sympathy in stock on their account.
If they are wise, the feminists will learn to not call themselves feminists; they will contrive somehow to misplace that tainted term, setting it somewhere in deep storage under piles of boxes and assorted clutter where they cannot easily lay their hands upon it. This will motivate them to live honestly within the framework of the ecumenical human condition, and eventually they will learn to get along just fine without the word feminist, and possibly to embrace some more superficial form of evil, rather than one so cancerous upon the very root of life itself.
http://tinyurl.com/yue572
posted by Fidelbogen at 7:46 PM
4 Comments:
I think you're both right, Fidel and EF.
There is absolutely no point, ever, in debating a feminist with the aim of influencing her view of the world in any way.
There is always a point in debating a feminist when there are men looking on. You are really talking to them, and using the feminist as both instrument and often proof of the points you are trying to make.
Rob Case
I believe there is still plenty to be gained from publicly engaging the enemy, Fidelbogen.
There are too many men out there who still do not realise that we are at war!
Sunlight is the best disinfectant!
E F
I like the idea of using feminists as 'instruments' to communicate with men specifically - not by "winning the argument", but by making the feminists themselves do the work of painting feminism in its true colors. (They can execute such "art" with far greater skill than any MRA who is merely describing feminism - after all, a picture is worth a thousand words! ;)
And tricking the feminists into aiding our recruitment efforts by inciting them to play the fool in the eyes of men. . .
. . . is a plan I can richly appreciate! ;)
On another note: When I say "don't debate with feminists", my concern is to avoid a certain mental trap that I see a lot of people falling into - although they don't seem to realize it. What I mean is, the idea that in order to gain moral validation points for the movement or to justify political action or mobilization of any kind, we must FIRST score debating points with feminists.
What a silly notion! The fact is, we are completely free to proceed at will with any project that will move our cause forward - whether the other side likes it or not!
This is, after all, a WAR.
And the enemy has NO LEGITIMACY and NO SOVEREIGNTY.
No, it is WE who are the sovereign ones. Feminism may now be a state ideology, and backed by state power. . .
But we have our Government in Exile, and we make our own decrees.
Such is the MGTOW way! :))
"If they are wise, the feminists will learn to not call themselves feminists; they will contrive somehow to misplace that tainted term..."
Indeed. The mantra of 3rd wave feminsm begins with, "I'm not a feminist....but...." And then she goes on to recite all the classic feminist advocacy. The younger feminists eschew that term, and yet believe in and practice all the misandry and selfishness of feminsm. It's so common now that the phrase "I'm not a feminist" has become equal to "Im a feminist." The two phrases have the same meaning in femspeak.
It shows that the Men's Movement has made it uncomfortable to openly identify with their mother's religion and admit to hating men even while dressing more and more whorish to attract the men who are turning away from them in droves. We haven't stopped them from feminism, but they no longer want to admit it in public. We are making progress.
Blessings
Bob
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