Another Feminist "MRA Expert"
What I'm about to share with you is a likely steamboiler, so here's a word of advisement: Ice is better than fire!
Below is a reader comment I left on a feminist blog called Female Impersonator, in response to a Jeff Fecke style post about "Men's Rights Activists". You all remember Jeff Fecke, yes? Well, let's just say that the piece you'll soon be reading would make Jeff very, very proud! But first, here is my reader comment — which may or may not survive moderation, but still, I have preserved it for posterity:
A word of explanation: When you read the post, you will see that the author (Jen) uses a pie analogy very like one that I used in an early CF article—see the link given above. And I have a gut feeling that Jen cribbed the idea from me, although I could be wrong. Oh, I don't plan to sue for plagiarism . . . but you know, i AM a bit miffed that my very elegant trope, which I crafted to such telling effect, was so completely "raped" with no sensitivity to what I was communicating. Mind you, I'm not seeking an apology or anything of the kind. Not a bit. But I feel like sharing this so that some of you regular CF readers could try your intuition on it. Did she or didn't she crib the pie metaphor. . ?
Now, although I am sending you to read the entire post, I can't resist offering some snippets as a preview:
In fact, my friends, you'd damn well better LEARN to do it! The trick is, that you are controlling your so-called "male violence", but in a way that will make the feminists wish they had been a sight more careful what they'd wished for! So do it now: fire in the belly, ice between the ears! Combine that with a sly, crafty, sense of humor and a WINNING ATTITUDE. . . and there is no force that can prevail against you!
All right, here is the blog URL for you:
http://tinyurl.com/6ay9kk
So Jen -- y'all troop on over here! Don't be a no-show, okay?
Or else we're bound to wonder why. ;)
===============================
Addendum: Percy, at Antimisandry Forums, has just written the following comment in response to the syndicated version of this CF post over there:
Below is a reader comment I left on a feminist blog called Female Impersonator, in response to a Jeff Fecke style post about "Men's Rights Activists". You all remember Jeff Fecke, yes? Well, let's just say that the piece you'll soon be reading would make Jeff very, very proud! But first, here is my reader comment — which may or may not survive moderation, but still, I have preserved it for posterity:
Be honest now, did you steal the pie metaphor from me, and then "retrofit" it? Of course, I don't know this for sure—but if you did, it would have been sporting of you to link to the original. Here, I'll do that now:
Equality: A Zeno's Paradox
Anyway, I invite you to nip on over to my blog, the Counter-Feminist, and introduce yourself, and I think that you will meet some very interesting MRAs indeed. Y'know...well-educated, intellectual types whom you might find challenging . . .
Think you can handle it?
I'll let them know you're coming. :)
Or you can just keep hiding in your little echo chamber. It's your call.
A word of explanation: When you read the post, you will see that the author (Jen) uses a pie analogy very like one that I used in an early CF article—see the link given above. And I have a gut feeling that Jen cribbed the idea from me, although I could be wrong. Oh, I don't plan to sue for plagiarism . . . but you know, i AM a bit miffed that my very elegant trope, which I crafted to such telling effect, was so completely "raped" with no sensitivity to what I was communicating. Mind you, I'm not seeking an apology or anything of the kind. Not a bit. But I feel like sharing this so that some of you regular CF readers could try your intuition on it. Did she or didn't she crib the pie metaphor. . ?Now, although I am sending you to read the entire post, I can't resist offering some snippets as a preview:
Yes, I know, you're about to blow a gasket after reading that, aren't you?? Well. . . don't! Here is what I want you to do instead. I want you to relax in your favorite chair, have a beer if you like, take a long, slow, deep breath, and then close your eyes. Then I want you to do a visualization/meditation exercise where you picture your entire body becoming a solid block of ice. Yes. . . . the watchword is cool! And yes, you can do it!"They [the MRAs] speak out about the "violence" that the feminist movement has done to men. They talk about the Femi-Nazism of the government that punishes men for being masculine. They rage against women who ask ex-husbands for child support and alimony.
"Basically, they think that society is out to hurt men by making them act like humans.
"Their basic tenement is that men should be free to act like men. By men, they mean homophobic, hyper-masculine, violent, abusive, irresponsible failures of humanity."
In fact, my friends, you'd damn well better LEARN to do it! The trick is, that you are controlling your so-called "male violence", but in a way that will make the feminists wish they had been a sight more careful what they'd wished for! So do it now: fire in the belly, ice between the ears! Combine that with a sly, crafty, sense of humor and a WINNING ATTITUDE. . . and there is no force that can prevail against you!
All right, here is the blog URL for you:
http://tinyurl.com/6ay9kk
So Jen -- y'all troop on over here! Don't be a no-show, okay?
Or else we're bound to wonder why. ;)
===============================
Addendum: Percy, at Antimisandry Forums, has just written the following comment in response to the syndicated version of this CF post over there:
"Hahahaha.
"So, I go out in the early morning and hitch the steed up to the plough and spend a week ploughing a hundred acres. (this is a full year after removing all the stumps and rocks - it took a while). The following week I dig a long ditch to bring water from a river a few miles away to irrigate my 'fresh' field. Lazy, slow, git; it takes a few weeks. Then I purchace sacks of seed and walk the field for a few days, scattering the seed. Its a pleasure to just walk for a change.
"A few months go by and I shoot a whole lot of crows - they were trying to eat my seeds - which is handy as I am hungry.
"I build a windmill. I had fun doing that and used the wood from the trees I cut down last year. Waste not, want not.
"The harvesting of the wheat takes another week or so of early mornings and late evenings, and then on with the threashing.
"At last, all these ears of wheat, ready for the mill. I grind and grind, happily. 'It's all grind', I think to myself.
"I give the flour to my Mrs who makes a nice pie (with crow in it).
"I say "I deserve half".
"She tells me I am greedy and oppressive and I have to give slices to the women next door on either side and across the road.
"I eat crow !"
posted by Fidelbogen at 10:30 PM
43 Comments:
I am not certain that Jen has filched your pie, Fidelbogen, because - with all due respect - I don't think it was your pie to begin with! I certainly remember hearing about this "shared pie" concept many years ago; it might even have been when I was at school. And it is not too difficult a concept for anyone to dream up independently.
So, leaving the matter of pies aside, what else is left in Jen's blog that is worth bothering about? She sounds like she has just discovered MRAs, or thinks she has, although she doesn't tell us who these MRAs are or where she has found them; let alone how she defines MRAs or knows one when she encounters him. But she has discovered that they are certainly not men who worship at the feet of the Almighty Feminine; quite the contrary. And that alone, without any other research (which she has clearly not bothered to pursue) is enough to convince her that these MRAs must therefore be wrong, wrong, wrong. At which point she thinks she knows all there is to know about the men' rights movement, and is now fit to pass judgement on it.
The rest is commonplace male-bashing of a variety we are well used to: making illogical assumptions, cherry picking convenient facts and ignoring inconvenient ones, and simply telling whoppers.
In other words, the judgement of the ignorant, the uncaring and the unfit. And thus not worth a bean.
Paul Parmenter
Fidelbogen, that site is one of many in a dark, twisted corner of the blogosphere that is content to preach to it's little angry choir of true believers. It will never persuade or enlighten, nor does it seek to. That site's moderator's idea of discourse is to posit sweeping, one-sided assertions that repeat tired mantras from the feminist playbook.
Among many other things, she would do well to speak to attorneys who practice in family law to learn that there is an unmistakeable bias against fathers. To blame this bias and anything bad that affects anyone anywhere at any time on the dreaded creatures with penii and testicular appendages is, of course, the oldest feminist canard in their horrid playbook. Because, of course, we all know that women since prehistory have been enslaved by our male brute strength, without responsibility or agency. Right.
I assess the validity of any site on the basis of how it treats false rape claims, my area of interest. Here is what the snide, inane author of that blog wrote: ". . . .only 2-3% of reports are fabricated . . . ." Of course, this is not factual. Whether she purposefully lied I cannot say, but such indifferent recklessness for the truth is at least tantamount to fraud. She should check out my Web site. We don't denigrate rape victims, and think that rape and false rape claims can both be taken seriously without denigrating any class of true victims. But on the basis of this lie alone, I can say without hesitation that her site a cesspool, an open sewer, a pit of putrefaction, a treasonous, slimy gathering of all that is rotten in the debris of human depravity. And in the center of all this waste and stench, besmearing herself with its foulest defilement, splashes, leaps, cavorts and wallows a bifurcated specimen who denigrates innocent men falsely accused of rape by pretending false claims are largely non-existent.
There is a legal term for such a jackass -- "jackass."
Keep up the great work.
I have not read this post, but I wonder why you chose to post Jen's picture in it. I am against that sort of tactic because I feel that it take away from arguments by making it seem that you are on a personal vendetta against a particular person. Yes, you may have an issue with Jen's post. That's fine. You should be able to write about your problem on your blog. But if you point is so strong, your words should be able to speak for themselves. You already named the blog she wrote for. You already used her name. Posting her picture, to me, comes off as an (immature) attempt to divert attention away from the real issue, and turn it onto a specific person by giving a face to go with a name.
If you want to be taken seriously by me, I suggest you try that.
The illustrious Jen describes herself as:
"A sanctimonious, young, radical feminist with a B.A. in Philosophy and a metaphorical PhD in Sensationalism"
In other words, she does not want to be taken seriously anyways.
Jen's egregious misrepresentations remind me of another feminist's amusing attempts to figure out 'anti-feminists'.
I see that in her pic she uses the 'make the fat girl look good pose' :)
@Amelia: Hey... I remember your name from the blog when I was over there! Right neighborly of you to drop by! ;)
So. . I threw the pic in there just for the hell of it. Why not? It's an interesting, revealing face, with those big wide puppydog eyes. And I thought my readers might find it interesting, too. . . .
Hey, didja notice how I fired a salvo in the air, and the MRAs came swarming out of the woods like minutemen?
I mean,after all, there IS a war going on! :(
@Davout: Hey, you certainly are 'Johnny-on-the-spot' with anything in the realm of "research". That's a talent I envy -- I have absolutely zero talent for research. :(
@All: Excellent comments, all!
@Archivist: Thank you for the lesson in legal terminology; I shall look forward to learning more such lawyerish trade jargon from you in the future! ;)
Yeah, fidelbogen. Real mature of you. Can't say I expected any different, but I always have some hope. Which you smashed. I've had enough of this blog. Thanks though, for the 2 minutes of my time that it wasted.
Ah. . brittle! But aren't they all?
Right glad am I, that I'm not one o' THAT tribe! ;)
--I mean,after all, there IS a war going on!--
It is time we escalate it into a all out open war.It is the time we teach feminists the meaning of manliness.
A MRA is not the one who limits himself/herself to the rights of fathers alone. He/She has a much more larger role to play.
an individual who user his/her faculties to drill the nobleness of true masculinity into the heads of today's young women and their single mothers
Let us go by her definition:
if
masculinity= ideology for gun-totting, wife beating males
then
feminity= ideology for man-bashing, father hating and infant slaughtering(under the glorious title of pro-choice), child neglecting. drunk and loutish females.
Fidelbogen,
I just looked through the contributors of the subject blog. There seems to be a male( who is ashamed of being a man) called Ryan Capuano.
Goodness me!! How can these feminist "males" contribute to the illogical ranting against their brothers and fathers? These males drive me sick
This just shows how pathetic this war really is.
1. How do you take a face like that and a girl that young serious?
2. Amelia says, "I am against that tactic" as if she has a say in playful war.
Most of these feminists are just young girls who have no idea what is coming their way.
I wouldn't be worrying about men if I was their age. I would be worrying about the lesbians and the female gangs.
Could you imagine Amelia saying to a girl gang member, "I am against that tactic". Or to a lesbian about to rape her. After all being raped by a lesbian is "Good" rape.
@Bhanu: I'm gonna need to differ with you a bit there, buddy. I think we need to go easy on the 'war rhetoric'.We to need be low-key about such things.
If anybody is to be "escalating" this war, let it be those who started it -- and we know just who that is, eh?
And we know that we can always depend on them to do exactly that. We know that they will ALWAYS be expanding their "war", because if they didn't, they would lose their initiative, their energy would reverse itself, and they would collapse! (Perpetual revolution.)
What needs to happen, one way or another, is provoking or tricking the other side into some kind of heavy-handed warlike behavior that will be completely obvious to a large number of people. . .
What needs to happen, is that the mask needs to slip, and reveal the true face underneath, so that everybody -- and I mean EVERYBODY -- can see it.
At that point, the propaganda victory will belong to our side.
And this "war" is, first and foremost, a propaganda war.
@Bhanu:
"A MRA is not the one who limits himself/herself to the rights of fathers alone. He/She has a much more larger role to play."
Absolutely! Besides, there is already another title, FRA, for those more limited activists.
The way I see it, the MRA is just a small piece of a much bigger picture. However, the MRA plays a role like a catalyst.
The bigger picture, I believe, is all about forming coalitions, alliances, networks, political fronts.
Feminism has extended its power into many different realms, and that means that many different specialists will be needed for counter-feminist work within those realms. It will be like a counter-feminist "shadow state" which paralells the feminist political empire and functions as a demolition scaffold. . .
And so, the MRA, as I see it, is the coordinating factor within all of this. . . the person with an overview of the grand plan, and networking connections that would spread to many parts of the non-feminist sector (NFS).
@Julie: Ah.. what an angled light you throw upon the subject! Illuminating indeed. . .
Just out of curiosity; is there much/any girl gangs and girl violence happening in NZ and OZ...?
@Fidelbogan,
Yes, the gangs are bad. Very bad. But you don't here about it because of the feminists and homosexual ideology.
Correction: You don't hear the reality, you only hear a little.
Hmm, someone needs to speak up. I would rather see women empowered than be victims and the same for men.
CF, here is the million dollar question?
Is counter fem about solutions or war?
Can Amelia and our sweet young girl and me be a part of your movement as pro feminism if we look at it in a real way?
@Julie: Well, let me think. . .
Can the leopard change his spots. .?
Okay, will the feminists ever clean up their act?
I would have to say NO. . .because if they did, they would no longer be feminists!
Counter-feminism is about doing whatever it takes. So yes, it is about solutions. And if the only solution is war. . .?
Yes, there is a war going on. It was declared years ago, and it keeps escalating and escalating, and it damn sure wasn't the MRAs who started it.
MRAs are nothing but poorly trained peasant guerillas. . but they're learning.
As for the war:
Guess who started it. . . ;)
Well, CF,
YOU are the 2nd man to break my heart in this hour on this.
But it is my fault for expecting more than was offered.
Sure, I will be a baby and allow my tears to flow.
Yet, I will never regret. You gave me so much to me.
But then so did others. I looked for truth.
@Julie: Pity! I was hoping you might show me a magical creature, a leopard that could change his spots. . .
Hey CF,
@Julie: Pity! I was hoping you might show me a magical creature, a leopard that could change his spots. . .
That is so funny.
What spots? Are you saying because I was born female I am automatically wrong?
No of course you aren't. Or are you? What do you want?
You say on your site that you want feminism to admit to it's faults and you want redress.
Fault you will get. Redress, well, I am not a lawyer.
But then what?
What happens then? Well, I will tell you. Then women and men pick up the pieces. Then the ground up negotiates.
You posted my comment CF without a comment back.
I have learnt recently that no comment from a male is a comment.
I have taken that to the ground level. No action from men is an action.
I am speechless. And I should be actionless.
Yes, I will give leeway. No problem. But I am a girl. I am a female.
I am sorry to let you down. I have to try and I have to care.
"Then the ground up negotiates."
Aye, negotiate it shall! Let the waters of life rush in, and once again seek their true level. And seeking, surely they shall find. From the ground up.
And none shall be permitted to preach feminism any more. The evil spell will be broken. Banished.
A blessing, that! ;)
Heh, we are virtually talking in chat time here, yah?
Good thing I didn't take a few hours on that response, 'stead of just a few minutes. . .
OK, CF...
I am back on my own mountain. It was nice to come down and talk to you. lol
I care very much about these young girls. My whole stand in the MRM is to care for the young guys but I do care for the young girls too.
fidelbogan, I have been stripped from all my dignity as a woman in this war. When I said you were the 2nd, I had already been killed by the 1st.
I surrender.
I don't care who wins any more.
Too many women see the anger men have, and assume they don't deserve to receive some of that anger. Too many women don't admit their own selfishness, and acceptance of privilege "because that's just the way things are", all while agitating for "women's rights".
Too many women stood silently by as men had their basic rights shredded in the name of women and children.
Too many women smugly enjoyed their privileges, "knowing" that was the way things SHOULD be.
I'm watching the world crumble around women, and society nowadays. I'm heartened by the increasing frequency of men's perspectives getting "air time".
I take a vicious delight watching all the "former hotties" that mistreated men so terribly through their fertile years withering away in childless misery.
Yes, I actually gain pleasure from it, since these women wouldn't BE in the position they are if they weren't selfish entitlement princesses...definitely not in the numbers they are.
I fear for the future of my daughters, but I wish nothing but the absolute worst fate for those people responsible for the current state of affairs.
And no, I'm not stupid enough to blame the actual legislators...they're WAY too busy to do their own research, and they were generally outright LIED to in advocacy of these initiatives...by feminists.
It makes me sad that there are women out there so far removed from men they can't even bring themselves to see men as human....only as "patriarchal oppressors"....
@Factory:
"And no, I'm not stupid enough to blame the actual legislators...they're WAY too busy to do their own research, and they were generally outright LIED to in advocacy of these initiatives...by feminists."
If you concretely know of the actual feminists and feminist groups that were active in the various lobbying campaigns over the years, along with a basic chronology of who did what and when, you should systematically archive this knowledge -- the more the better! Such information is very, very useful. . .
Item: Andrea Dworkin famously said that "VAWA is our baby."
Item: The German wife of Senator Bill Bradley (of Bradley Amendment fame) once translated Kate Millet's Sexual Politics into German. . .
@Julie: Oh heavens, pick up your dignity and dust it off. Dignity's not a good thing to be without, you know. . . ;)
"I don't care who wins any more."
Okay. Here's the thing: the chances are that nobody will win. Instead, the two sides will battle to a draw, and a balance of power will follow.
In other words, a return to the way things were pre-feminism.
Which, despite what the feminists would have us believe, won't be any worse for women overall than the way things are right NOW...
And in some ways possibly BETTER.
As for all those young girls,well. ... look at that picture of 'Jen'. Doesn't she look just like a classic kid who got inducted into a cult? Like, she might have got into the Moonies or something, but the feminists got to her first. . .
I suppose that in my own way, I too care about those people. It disturbs me that they drank a glass of horse piss called feminism, which somebody handed them under the name of "billiards".
She and others like her will be much better off if they learn to face the world cult-free. . .
Negotiating from the ground up, as we say. ;)
@Factory: Hey man, I've tweaked a few things in the blog template in a way that might improve the readability problem that you mentioned. Maybe not so much as might be hoped. . . but some.
I am still here Fidelbogan.
If you can put up with me, I can put up with a Clint Eastwood.
Fidelbogen, Jen's next few ex-boyfriends are probably going to be repulsed by anything feminism after having had the "Jen experience", so... don't worry. :)
But I'm not happy with the war metaphor as well. I'm a strong believer in that the most dignified and intelligent soldiers in a war are the deserters, the people on either side of the battlefield who just walk away, because they can't see a point in fighting: It's silly and it prolongs the war. Somehow there must be a way of meeting aside of the battlefield and come to a new agreement.
@Michael: Well, we can't assume that "boyfriends" are what Jen has. . .
But anyway.Yes, I like the idea of deserters in a war, depleting the ranks of BOTH armies until war is not longer possible. Nice scenario if you can get it. But of course, it is STILL a war metaphor. . . ;(
Something similar to that was my way of thinking for years -- except I was more like a citizen of a noncombatant nation. But one day I realized that a war of aggression was being waged by a power which didn't give a fig about my neutrality. The din of fusillade and cannonade was growing distinctly louder as it approached my village, and it finally dawned on me that neutrality was no longer an option. . .
Wars of aggression (which one did not ask for) are funny that way. ;)
"Metaphor" or otherwise, it seems to reflect the objective reality of the situation, and besides, "orchestrated campaign of socio-political aggression" is such a mouth full!
But I do like the idea of desertion, and so I will certainly scatter propaganda leaflets over enemy territory to encourage this.
And in the meantime, I will keep my powder dry at the very least, and perhaps raise a militia force to stand vigilantly at the ready.
And I would agree that war rhetoric, (as I suggested in a foregoing comment) ought to be kept minimal and low-key -- whatever the objective reality of the situation.
@Julie: Since you mentioned Clint Eastwood, and since Michael and I have been discussing "war", I just wondered if you ever saw the The Outlaw Josie Wales, where Clint plays a peaceful Missouri farmer, around the end of the Civil War, who turns into a deadly pistolero after Bloody Bill Quantrill's border ruffians (or whoever they are) destroy his home and massacre his family. . .?
I can't say one way or the other if I have seen The Outlaw Josie Wales because I may have seen it some time back.
I like Clint Eastwood. He is a man's man and a woman's hero as well as an animal lover in real life too.
........
In NZ right now the Chinese are upsetting the government lefties and the police commission.
They have taken to the streets and on TV stated that they will not stand back to let their families die by young gangsters.
They have publically stated that they will bring the triads out and that it is their right to do so and it will only cost them money that they will gladly pay.
I can only be grateful for my family matters to me too.
http://tinyurl.com/6gsncd
Late to the party again. :)
First of all and for the record, Jen's article did not incite my blood to boil. She is young and evidently naive. It was rather hard to take her seriously. Her characterization of Men's Rights Activists (hardly a homogeneous and unified group) is wholly ignorant. Her characterization of violence as a principally male phenomenon is equally vacuous except to those who prefer floating on the surface of things. Finally, her understanding of current family and divorce law is delusional. In summary, Jen's premise is rather simple: Feminists are virtuous, MRA's are not. It also seemed to me that Jen began with the premise that the natural state of things is one in which men dominate and that men and women are made equal artificially by supplanting male power with the power of the state ........ disavowed of any feminine influence and judicial subterfuge, of course.
Late to the party again. :)
Hmmm. Well, could that be 'cuz you're one of the "cool kids" who arrives fashionably late. . .? ;)
But anyway, for the record, I will second your remarks. Although it seems that quite a few bloodstreams, in the event, were set aboil! (As I predicted.) Apparently they were arriving at the 'Female Impersonator' blog not only from here, but via some of the places where this post is syndicated. Quite a little feed of hot-blooded pitbulls, to be sure! (Notice the number of deleted comments over there!)
This game involves an element of alley-scrapping and gutter-fighting, no doubt. And yes, I can mix it up in that league myself, when it pleases me! ;) The other side needs a little dig in the ribs occasionally, by way of karmic feedback -- just so they'll know that the rest of the world DOES EXIST. . . and is getting bigger.
Hah! It appears that Jen has replaced her old bamboozled picture with *gasp* one that makes her look somewhat attractive. There is cleavage included for your viewing pleasure :-)
Who says that feminists don't care what us non-feminists think of their appearance???? muhahahaha
On a separate note, I found that she has recently been in fine misandric fettle, calling her own brother a bully and some other reader's brother a monster because those guys wouldn't conform to the feminist diktat.. I bet those two guys can't wait to get out of the gulag that is their house...geez
@Davout: Finally, almost 2 months later, I got around to looking at the new Jenn photo which you mention. I must say, the public image makeover is considerable.
Yeah, I guess somebody wants to make it extremely clear that feminists don't all look like Andrea Dworkin. They're mighty insecure about that, aren't they?
"Basically, they think that society is out to hurt men by making them act like humans."
Basically, they think that society is out to hurt men by making them act like soulless walking atms/whipping boys.
FIXED
I suppose that in my own way, I too care about those people. It disturbs me that they drank a glass of horse piss called feminism, which somebody handed them under the name of "billiards".
But I'm not happy with the war metaphor as well. I'm a strong believer in that the most dignified and intelligent soldiers in a war are the deserters, the people on either side of the battlefield who just walk away, because they can't see a point in fighting: It's silly and it prolongs the war. Somehow there must be a way of meeting aside of the battlefield and come to a new agreement.
You guys are truly naive. Making peace with feminazis is like jews making peace with nazis. These bitches are out to destroy us. Click on the link and see what feminists want to do with us. Caring for feminists is something if I were you I would lose real fast. Don't think they will take mercy on you if they get the upper hand. The only peace they will accept is the death and destruction of the male gender.
Also read the comments.
click here
@MasculistMan:
"You guys are truly naive."
No, we are not. Actually, you have a tin ear for what is happening in this 2-year-old discussion. You are unaware of what is taking place beneath the surface, on other levels.
But I promise you, we are not naive!;)
And actually, you should save your breath because you are preaching to the choir. That is, I for one pretty much agree with what you are saying. .
If you wish to discuss this, you can reach me here:
fidelbogen@earthling.net
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