It Belongs to You—Take It!!
You know what? Those FC folk are sitting on the fence—how else can I say it? However: when the big barbecue gets underway and that fence grows sizzling hot, I'm pretty sure they'll hop down right quick, on one side or the other. That is of course, unless they prefer to take their buns toasted. I mean, you never know: chacun à son goût, as they say in France! ;-)
At any rate, my comment on FC was rather long—and rather good, I thought. Long enough and good enough (with small modifications) to qualify for CF post duty. So I will share it with my blog readers now. But for the sake of context, here is the native habitat on FC where it first appeared:
http://tinyurl.com/5cc3gn
And the FC comment follows:
Comment by fidelbogen | September 22, 2008 at 5:02 pmA final word: I consider female pop celebrities, on the whole, to be a demographic cohort eminently undeserving of my attention. That is, I consider this group of people to be mindshare vampires. Nevertheless, I would like to say something about Britney Spears.
These people—Schwyzer, Kimmel, Faith and all their tribe—have only as much power as the rest of the world gives them.And since these people speak from within the feminist paradigm, it is much the same as saying that the feminist paradigm itself has only as much power as the rest of the world gives it.
To argue with feminists from within the feminist paradigm, is either self-defeating, or too much work to be worthwhile—especially when other methods (of a more efficient, pragmatic nature) might be devised.
It especially irks me to see elitist academic male feminists like Schwyzer and Kimmel behaving as if they “own the issues”—as if they run a closed shop upon all legitimate discourse pertaining to the subject. I must object strenuously to these people monopolizing the conversation about manhood and such, in their triumphalist tone of self-appointed authority—ex cathedra as it were.
It is good for these people that they can isolate themselves in self-appointed intellectual ghettos and echo chambers. It is not so good for the non-feminist sector, however, that these people should broadcast their proceedings from a mountain top as the official Voice of Truth to a disorganized population which doesn’t rightly savvy what is being fed to it—or why—and therefore apt to sop it up like an uncritical sponge-mass.
Most objectionable of all, I reckon, is that their discourse about “manhood and such” grows directly from the DNA nucleus of the feminist paradigm. Which means that (according to their program) feminism has got the contract to legislate upon the meaning of manhood. Finito!
Dialogue with these people will operate smoothly only so long as you respect certain unstated conventions—which may be summarized tersely as: “Given X, certain things follow.” And X, please understand, is always a feminist fixed idea of one kind or another. So the trouble starts when you commence (either seriously OR playfully) to reassigning the value of “X”. Do that, and watch them grow tetchy!
It is possible, I would grant, to commandeer the feminist paradigm from within simply by “twiddling with their algebra”, so to say. But it’s a hell of a lot of work, and as we have seen ever-so-many times, their zone alert system is highly effective. Witness the present instance: Hugo was hoping the thread would run smoothly along the greased rails of feminist ideology to an acceptably feminist endpoint. But Hugo smelled trouble, for the rails had developed a disturbing friction, and a stutter. So he hit the brakes and threw the locomotive in reverse. (In other words, he closed the thread.)
And that is how it rolls, every time, with their rolling-stock. They “close the thread”. Standard M.O. Foreign elements are either ejected from the zone, or else the zone is shut down—to be re-convened elsewhere. Repeat procedure as necessary. Ad infinitum if necessary. And declare “victory” every time.
In order to burst the bubble of the feminist paradigm, (and therefore bring it within the ambit of a relativizing discourse) one would need to make it both impossible to eject the foreign elements, and impossible to shut down the zone. Given these conditions, the foreign elements could (given sufficient skill) realize their objective—to wit, make the necessary algebraic reassignments, and make them “stick”. (Although it would still be a labor of Hercules, and a tedious slog any way you slice it!)
However the cardinal point remains, that to allow the tenets of the feminist world-view (paradigm) as a starting point for discussion, and then discuss your way out of the marshland point-by-point and tit-for-tat, is a profoundly exhausting way to open feminism to the currents of relativizing discourse. (Although my hat is off to any who would undertake this—far be it from me to devalue their efforts!)
But naturally, one is bound to speculate upon the alternatives. It seems to me that more leverage, more torque, can be developed and put into action by INITIALLY staking a standpoint outside the feminist paradigm, and from there, engaging the feminist paradigm as socio-political unit—a sum total of parts. . .
. . . as opposed to “earning” that outside standpoint by hacking your way out of the maze from within. For that would amount to seeking permission from somebody else to merely be yourself, and such a selfhood, granted by somebody else, is no selfhood whatsoever.
An existential standpoint foreign to the feminist paradigm need only be reclaimed, as one would reclaim stolen property. It's free because it's yours!
Having accomplished that particular miracle, that particular revolution, life (from a non-feminist viewpoint anyway) gets progressively simpler and easier. And these people, being shifted away from their subjective center of gravity, must now struggle to regain that center, step by labored step, through tangles and thickets and quagmires. Surely not an easy task. . .
But a most necessary task, a task not to be omitted, if these people would genuinely EARN that so-called "right" to pontificate blithely upon the nature of “manhood and such” without seeking the input of those who are essentially different from themselves and foreign to their world.
Okay, I said it! That's all! I just wanted to write that magical name on my blog. Maybe it'll work some Google magic for me. You never can tell.



20 Comments:
I don't know why men put this feminist garbage in the US.time to say enough.
mite work better if it were written as "Britney Spears" which is actually how u spell it!
nice to have you back. I hope you enjoyed your rest
@Dan: Thanks for pointing that out. I have corrected "Brittany" to read as "Britney".
@Anon1: Right on, man! We're chipping away at the situation. . .
@Anon2: Yeah, I did enjoy it — although the only real "rest" that I took was from blogging. But you should see the amount of reading that I did!
This is an eloquent roadmap to the very same behaviour I espouse, namely that we should stop apologizing, stop trying to show "we get it too" and, like you say, fight our way out from within.
I propose an unapologetic view, assertion that certain things are wrong backed up by reflections of demands for proof back on the "demander", meme-subversion, Satire (capitalized even...), etc.
In short, hostile civility.
I don't have to apologize for my views because I have yet to see a feminist disagree with them, other than severity and cause. The imbalance pointed out is never disputed.
How many Feminists can say that?
"In short, hostile civility.
Hostile civility. That's good; I like that! I wish I'd thought of it.
Yes, hostile civility it shall be! ;-)
First time poster, but I think your procedure is most wise:
Sun Tzu said: "The failed military goes to battle and then seeks victory. The Successful military finds victory and then goes to battle"
or something to that effect, The Art of War applies to any conflict, and most times is about not having war, okay, now I hope I've made myself not to be a warmonger.
What you've said is very similar, don't play "their game". When you're in your own sphere, they have to come to YOU, and the advantage is yours. But when you play their game, on their field, with their pieces, by their rules, you are destined to fail.
Even if you believe that following their every discretion will earn you favor, and your viewpoint will be heard, it won't, they will label you and call you the most hateful things as that's how their "feel-osophy" works, facts don't register with them.
Sorry for making this so long, I just felt that when I see a successful stratgem being used to procure our best interests, I have to comment on how good an idea it is.
-Miles (not the one on Glenn Sacks though, I'm a different guy)
"Sorry for making this so long, I just felt that when I see a successful stratgem being used to procure our best interests, I have to comment on how good an idea it is."
Not really long at all.
As for the stratagem: more to come, in installments. . .
Hello again Fidelbogen,
I suppose it's about time I chimed in here. :)
I can recall that during the 60's, both feminists and liberal males had hoped for some common ground. At that time, opposition to the Vietnam war, racial issues, the sexual revolution, women's liberation, gay and lesbian liberation were all conflated. Liberal males were hoping, finally, that it would be easier to get laid. They also represented male supporters for the pragmaic goals of the women's movement. Nonetheless, the originally hoped for common ground between themselves and feminists was quickly disappointed. Feminists hardly let up on their mother's earlier, ceaseless criticisms of male sexuality, and liberal males, not all of them without sympathy for their own gender, began questioning much of the rhetoric of ideological feminism. From the die hard feminist point of view, every institution of this society was irremediably sexist, and every male, even the most sympathetic, ineradicably guilty by association with it. From the liberal male's point of view, we can safely assume he is not altogether different from his more conservative brotheren in that the feminist assault upon men as a whole turned out to be more than he could shoulder.
To quote, "A woman's flattery may inflate a man's head a little; but her criticism goes straight to his heart and contracts it so that it can never again hold quite as much love for her." Helen Roland.
And so it happened that even the most liberal man's heart contracted... and contracted... and contracted .... until his forlorn hopes for love began to look elsewhere in the female kingdom where fierce indignation could no longer tear at him.
Marty Lee, thank-you for what you have written in your comment. The whole revolution is hard to understand if your weren't in it.
CF, I hope you don't mind me being off topic but it seems that activists are becoming the enemy of the Internet people. This is sooooo, soooo, sooooo wrong.
The net doesn't understand the street. They have no idea how they write on a site and then write again the next day on a different subject while the street never gets to turn off. Even the hardest activists spew up from what is going on out there. You just can't describe it to the net.
Any hour of any day men are on call to save a life for real. Judges stop fathers from being by the bedside of their child while they die. Yellow tape is placed around houses and the street is blocked off where a man or father has killed himself because he can't take it anymore. The street failed him and they feel it.
Children are on microphones begging for the judges to let them see their fathers. Black crosses are laid out in the hundreds in front of Parliament to represent the dead fathers and not one politician bats an eyelid. Yet, just one woman can say, "I want..." while she stands outside Parliament and she has arms all around her.
Does not the net see how they hold the street back? Do they even care?
How can people be so heartless?
Sorry to rant to you online.
"Does not the net see how they hold the street back? Do they even care?
"
Julie, this is a dark saying of yours. How do a few writers on the internet "hold the street back"? I confess that I cannot wrap my mind around this doctrine. . . :(
You can't describe it on the net, and yet somehow, the net is able to "hold it back". . .?
Fair enough Fidelbogen.
I have to say that I was a bit shocked to see discussion from fear of where the MRM is to go. It seems many men have a certain idea that women be under men in a hierarchy of some form.
But that means nothing.
The real world moves forward regardless of the discussion of men and man hating feminists.
.........
I had worried but I don't now. A politician also tells me that women are holding the fort at the moment. I knew this from the council but not how big it was.
..........
All will be OK one way or another. The world will continue to progress and humankind will continue to survive.
No-one holds anything back. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and actions against progress.
Just learnt all this to the detail very recently.
Just to add clarity to my hard to follow comments.
Progress is not about 'the pill' for women or the sexual revolution only. Nor about one sex being above the other. It is also about the Industrial age, green back money ... the environment (whether global warming or not) population growth whether it creates poverty or not, available work, humans as an asset to make money and unions.
It is about where we have been from the hunting and gathering days to the days of domesticating stock and building homes to land being the most valuable resource.
It is about everything being connected to everything in a natural manner.
At the end of the day it is about about balance. Something very hard for humankind to achieve given their own nature and history.
Discussion is always occurring and is vital.
Breeding is always occurring and vital.
Oh, and so is breathing, eating and survival.
And oh, oh, oh, so is holding isms accountable. Everything is as it should be. Perfection exists in it's own way.
@Julie:
Certainly, it makes sense for people to hold 'isms' accountable, rather than vice-versa! ;-)
"From the die hard feminist point of view. . . "
In the end, this farce will die hard, and. . . .
. . . somebody will get their clock cleaned! ;->
n the end, this farce will die hard
All that came to mind was:
"Yippee Cay yay" (sorry for the Bruce willis)
What feminism doesn't seem to understand is that hate doesn't sustain. At some point, people will stand up and say "Enough!!!".
Miles above talked of Sun Tzu. Consider this, and it appears feminism has studied him as well:
"All warfare is based on deception."
Never will those who wage war tire of deception."
Consider the 2% stat on rape, the "Wage Gap", DV statistics, etc., and you can clearly see how those 2 quotes fit the feminist "War" against the patriarchy (Whatever that is).
Oh...and Fidelbogen...welcome back. I live in chicago now, but grew up in eastern washington. I love the pictures you have on the site. Takes me back.
"Oh...and Fidelbogen...welcome back. I live in chicago now, but grew up in eastern washington. I love the pictures you have on the site. Takes me back."
If those pics on the side bar take you back, wait till you see THIS:
http://tinyurl.com/6cb7rg
(But maybe you have seen it already?)
(But maybe you have seen it already?)
Thanks, I had seen it. But it is always worth revisiting.
I always like to head back during the winter months to do some skiing in the Spokane/Coeur D' Alene area.
You are indeed a source of intellectual honesty and enlightenment. It is appreciated.
"You are indeed a source of intellectual honesty and enlightenment."
Oh well. . . I've been called worse! ;-)
The tinyurl link to the FC comment is dead :)
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