Returns From the Returns
The following arrived by way of what I quaintly call the 'alpha channel'. All right, non-public communication space, to translate for those outside the loop. ;) The orange highlightings are my own stylistic addition for the purpose of, well . . . highlighting!
Well! It's an honor to be shelved among such luminaries. I'll keep doing what I can, to be a pipeline for subjugated knowledge. . . :)
"As your last post concerned the inattention paid to certain arcane theories as of late, I thought I would add something in that vein. Call it MANY REGRESSIVE RETURNS II.
"Feminism is a theory of gender that has no sympathy for the male gender, that has no knowledge of men's experience, that does not give men their due. In it, men are only partly human creatures—to be messed over in accordance with feminist complaints. That Intellectuals like Richard Rorty side with feminists is a small disappointment. Men have other intellectual benefactors. I'm thinking of the late Norman Mailer. His was a world of prose and poetry that reveled in human experience including the hearts of men—something the sterile world of academia cannot do. That is why men like Rorty, sitting in their ivory towers, have no truck with their own gender but can more readily identify with other pallid intellects like Catharine MacKinnon, a woman so obviously hateful of men. It is why Rorty can applaud as an "insight" the completely alien notions of Jacques Derrida in which "he explicitly argues that fundamental philosophical questions cannot be separated from the thinking of sexual difference." "Indeed", Rorty says, "I should go further and say that Derrida's most original and important contribution to philosophy is his weaving together of Freud and Heidegger, his association of "ontological difference" with gender difference." This weaving together enables us to see for the first time the connection between the philosophers' quest for purity, the view that women are somehow impure, the subordination of women, and "virile homosexuality" (the kind of male homosexuality that Eve Sedgwick calls "homo-homosexuality", epitomized in Jean Genet's claim that "the man who fucks another man is twice a man").
"Huh?
"I can imagine Genet recoiling in horror at Derrida's and Rorty's deliberate misinterpretation! Shall we send him a copy of Norman Mailer's The Prisoner of Sex? 'If a bugger is a man, if he is indeed twice a man — a man who fucks a male is a double male,' says Darling in Our Lady of the Flowers — it is because there is no humiliation more profound in prison than to be at the bottom of the order, to be helpless without a protector, and usable as a female by every other convict. Over and over in Genet we are treated to the spectacle of males turning into females. After a few years, Darling, the double male, is as much female as his mistress Divine, and Adrien Ballon who begins as a stud ends a queen, ends in fact as Our Lady of the Flowers."
"I suppose it takes a great writer of prose to understand another great writer of the same. Male feminists cannot be trusted with the delicate logic of male experience in or outside of prison. As we might expect, one can draw differing conclusions when comparing life on the inside of prison to life on the outside. In Derrida's interpretation, women are at the bottom of the order as men in prison. In Mailer's interpretation, men become the prisoners of sex, and in close proximity to women become like them without the distance "social constructs" provide. Naturally, sloppy analysis of either interpretation may say it all comes to the same thing. Women end being the lesser of men. Or as Tennyson put it in Locksley Hall, 'Woman is the lesser man, and all thy passions, matched with mine, are as moonlight unto sunlight, and as water unto wine.'
"The difference is found in what I said to begin with. Derrida's and Rorty's interpretations lack that very quality feminists are always talking about — empathy. In this case it's empathy for men that's voided. They want to break down the social constructs that distance men and women by pointing to the fact that they are, indeed, social constructs. Mailer has all the respect in the world for these constructs as his sympathies rest with his own gender. And like a Nietzschean protector, Mailer, far from endorsing the naturalness of male control, presents the sexes as engaged in a power struggle that the male is by no means assured of winning.
"I suppose the moral here is: Don't expect feminists to play fair, especially with the coercive powers of the State on their side. After all, if women can accuse men of endless bias in their own favor, how the hell are we to trust that women are any different? Among many feminists, the notion of equality between the sexes has recently morphed from one where double standards were officially rejected to one in which they are tacitly endorsed. Why? Because you can't impose a single standard on two dissimilar creatures and expect similar results. With one gender being dissed as the sexual oppressors and the other coddled as the sexually oppressed, policy regarding how they should be apportioned prerogatives or dealt with for the same offense is not likely to work on the same presumptions nor show them equal consideration.
"Surely one definition of equality is finding as much fault in ourselves as we do in others. Fortunately, there are a few "feminists" like Patricia Pearson, author of When She Was Bad: How And Why Women Get Away With Murder, who have men's backs. Nevertheless, Pearson's book is not widely accepted by her womanist sisters nor is it likely to find a place on Oprah's "inspirational books" list. Opinions regarding sexual politics mirror the fact that we live in a feminist culture. Feminism is no longer a form of what Foucault termed "subjugated knowledges." Rather, the reverse is true. The critical analysis of feminist thinking, now found mainly on the internet, is closer to currently "repressed" knowledge.
"With that said, I give all the credit in the world to Angry Harry, Mensnewsdaily, www.mediaRADAR.org (respecting accuracy in domestic abuse reporting),The Counter-Feminist, and other places of solace for men on the internet."
Well! It's an honor to be shelved among such luminaries. I'll keep doing what I can, to be a pipeline for subjugated knowledge. . . :)



41 Comments:
Any movement for social change looks to a better future, but it makes its case by arguing against the past: some existing condition needs to be changed. The more the past is made to appear ugly, the more compelling the need for change will seem. Feminists, wanting to make men over, had to convince popular culture that previous "constructs" of masculinity were inadequate at best and abusive at worst. This was achieved by promoting negative stereotypes of men, male sexuality, and masculinity, declaring these the norm, and then advocating for their destruction.
Having sniffed out male dignity wherever it has grown, feminists and have ruthlessly uprooted it. Under their pressure, modern culture has downgraded or rejected masculine virtues in favor of more gentle, more "socially inclusive" habits; all the while making men apologize for being male. As a leveling tool, feminism killed the respect women once had for men as men and likewise the respect men once had for women as women. We are all just "persons" now.
When women forge their own "gender identity," in the way the feminists recommend, they become unattractive to men. And when men cease to be masculine, they become unattractive to women. Sexual companionship then goes from the world. All that it needs to save young people from this predicament is for old-fashioned moralists to steal unobserved past their feminist guardians and whisper the truth into eager and astonished ears — the truth that gender is indeed a construct, but one that involves both sexes, acting in mutual support, if it is to be built successfully. In my experience, young people often hear with great sighs of relief that much of the feminist movement has been a mistake.
Interesting read.
what I quaintly call the 'alpha channel'. All right, non-public communication space, to translate for those outside the loop. ;)
Wow! This is different. Do you think there is any chance of donations from the alpha males. The lesser males going public could sure use some support form your great, wondrous and powerful men.
@Julie:
Oh, you silly little rabbit! I don't mean THAT kind of alpha! ;)
Actually, if you have every worked with Photoshop, you MIGHT twig the meaning of "alpha channel"!
We all need an alpha channel. You and I have been using the alpha channel for a long time, ya know! ;)
@MartyLee:
"We are all just "persons" now."
Perhaps. And yet. . . if only it were that simple! If only indeed we were just "persons": just Jack, just George, just Judy, just Cynthia. . .
Instead, we are "men-as-a-group", and "women-as-a-group". Class "man" and class "woman". The male "bourgeoisie" and the female "proletariat". . . .
Yup. i most heartily WISH we were "just persons". That would be a step forward!
CF, thanks for making humour of what I said. I had not heard of "Alpha Channel" until now.
One last comment on Richard Rorty's statement,
"For masculinism is the defense of the people who have been on top since the beginning of history against attempts to topple them; that sort of monster is very adaptable, and I suspect that it can survive almost as well in an anti-logocentric as in a logocentric philosophical environment." ..
As I said earlier, Rorty makes of "masculinism" a kind of insidious monster. He also stretches his definition of "masculisism" into an all inclusive class struggle.
It's an odd definition as masculinism is almost always a synonym for patriarchy and patriarchy is, in a classical sense, any society in which the rights of the father are of the first order. This, of course, has not been the case in our society for some time now. Indeed, while fathers do have rights in our society, these rights are negligible when compared to the rights of mothers. Any cursory reading of family law will show this. . Also, government's concerns with men's rights and father's rights is nil. Such concern's would be a, "political fart in the tea party," as you've said fidelbogen.
In any case, power rests in the hands of the state, not men specifically nor as a class. Perhaps this is why Rorty has dropped the term "patriarchy" for the more amorphous "masculinism," which he sees "thoroughly built into everything we do and say in contemporary society" no doubt in the same way we see feminism
Patriarchy in the classical sense means "rights of the father". However, it is not in the classical sense that feminists (or people like Rorty for that matter) are talking.
In the feminist lexicon, as I have argued, "patriarchy" is simply a code word for male power, and male power breaks down into identity and agency on the part of any male citizen.
See here: http://tinyurl.com/d2t6w6
I have not been able to devise a more cogent explanation than this. And it pins feminist theory to the corkboard like a squirming bug.
So, when Rorty talks about "masculinism", it's a pretty safe bet that he too, is talking about male "identity and agency". (Which, if it exists whatsoever, must perforce be "thoroughly built into everything we do and say in contemporary society" - as would be its female counterpart!)
"The more the past is made to appear ugly, the more compelling the need for change will seem."
I remember Dr.E. on the SYG forum making a very similar point once, long ago. It made perfect sense to me at the time, and it is cool to hear somebody saying almost the same thing again! :)
CF, Off Topic but thought you might be interested in this.
An Everyday manifesto?
http://libcom.org/thought/introduction-why-an-everyday-manifesto
@Julie:
Yes, the idea of "direct action" certainly does have merit.
@CF,
Yes, the idea of "direct action" certainly does have merit.
Yes! It sure does.
--n the feminist lexicon, as I have argued, "patriarchy" is simply a code word for male power---
Patriarchy is a code of conduct for a civilized society. Patriarchy places severe restrictions on regressive aspects of human sexuality. Patriarchy is a principle established for human beings, who largely have instincts of primitive hunter gatherer societies, to channel their faculties towards building a industrial society.
BTW, three cheers for making it to the list :)
@Bhanu:
Yes, patriarchy is that also. . . and a code word for "male power" when it rolls off the tongue of a feminist. ;-}
Patriarchy is "Male headship of the family".
Patriarchy is a principle established for human beings, who largely have instincts of primitive hunter gatherer societies, to channel their faculties towards building a industrial society.
This is more left wing against the wealthy industrialised countries.
"What if a small group of world leaders were to conclude that the principal risk to the Earth comes from the actions of rich countries? And if the world is to survive, those rich countries would have to sign an agreement reducing their impact on the environment. Will they do it? The group’s conclusion is "no." The rich countries won’t do it. They won’t change. So, in order to save the planet, the group decides: Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about? This group of world leaders form a secret society to bring about an economic collapse." (Wood,1990).
http://tinyurl.com/dgoj3p
'Patriarchy' is about the right of men to be FATHERS in the full, complete sense of the expression - not just in the narrow, biological way.
This gives us yet another angle for what the feminists are on about, when they preach against 'patriarchy'.
And not only their preaching, but in this case their practice. They clearly wish to annihilate the institution of fatherhood altogether, or impose such limitations upon it that it becomes effectively meaningless. . .
But it all comes back to my original thesis about male power. For I can hardly think of a better way to destroy male power, than to destroy fatherhood.
'Patriarchy' is about the right of men to be FATHERS in the full, complete sense of the expression - not just in the narrow, biological way.
CF, I had something to say back to this but then thought it better to understand what you are saying.
Sooooo, what exactly are you saying? How much power do you think fathers should have?
"How much power do you think fathers should have?"
I don't know "how" much - I mean, how do you measure THAT?
But. . . they should have the "power" to be fathers in the broad way of speaking, and not just in the narrow, biological way.
A man who is forbidden, post-divorce, to be involved in the lives of his progeny, is being denied "fatherhood" in the way that I mean.
This wouldn't be a bad situation if we could positively guarantee that ONLY the 'bad apples' suffered such a fate. However, it is happening to the good apples also - and in non-trivial numbers!
Which is what the feminists wish to bring about. They don't give one rotten fig about sorting the good apples from the bad apples. They aim to destroy fatherhood clear across the board, as a key segment in their war against men. (Or against "patriarchy", as they like to say!;)
"How much power do you think fathers should have?"
I don't know "how" much - I mean, how do you measure THAT?
I think you could measure it by rights. Who owns the children is one way of determining the rights/power.
In the bible, the children belong to God and the parents are given the responsibility to care for the children but they are not theirs.
Under state control this is the same. Parents have no rights only responsibility. (This is feminist argument in government about father's rights)
If in fact one believes the children belong to the parents then we go back prior 1900 because since the 1900s teenagers themselves have been fighting for independence away from parents.
"You are what you parents are" seemed to be the norm. A blacksmiths son became a blacksmith. A child married only who was in their class, race, etc.
Still today some Nations are angry that the bloodline is mixed such as Japan where they have a shortage of females. Men are not only having to change to be picked by females but they are looking outside their own nationality.
How much power does the father or mother have over children now-a-days in Japan?
.......
The feminists are not interested in destroying fathers. They are only out for female/male interdependency by making women independent.
They do not attack fathers being parents, they attack fathers control of mothers. Every time a father says, "They are my children", feminists see a man wanting to use children as a means to control a woman.
But this is not to say that feminists don't attack parents (mother and fathers) as caregivers of children. They don't agree that mothers own children either.
Hence the backing of 2 fathers and 2 mothers accepted as caregivers for children. Even single mothers and single fathers.
PS. This is just my view from where I sit.
By Marty Lee,
Any movement for social change looks to a better future, but it makes its case by arguing against the past: some existing condition needs to be changed. The more the past is made to appear ugly, the more compelling the need for change will seem. Feminists, wanting to make men over, had to convince popular culture that previous "constructs" of masculinity were inadequate at best and abusive at worst. This was achieved by promoting negative stereotypes of men, male sexuality, and masculinity, declaring these the norm, and then advocating for their destruction.
This is very good. I just want to add to it.
Society has changed. The past has been destroyed or is in the process of being destroyed. (nations behind)
After destruction comes the rebuilding. Feminists are only getting to say what they want from men because they are well built and have their place in the new society. (soon to be in America)
The MRM is seen as a backlash (agent against change) rather than a group rebuilding. (progressive agent)
What ever is already built cannot be un-built. This is how progress is working. White men and women cannot enslave black men and women again.
The men's movement cannot bring back the Patriarchy.
All movements lead to a new future.
The past is being scrutinised because the future is considering which parts to keep and which parts to throw away.
PS. Once again, just my view from where I sit.
@Julie:
Just a couple of quick thoughts.
Forget the term MRM. Well, no, don't forget it, but try to remember that it is only one of many different "movements" which are moving either directly against feminism itself, or INDIRECTLY against feminism's consequences.
In other words, this "MRM" that you talk about is just one part of a much larger picture called the NON-FEMINIST SECTOR. Some people may insist that the MRM is "regressive" (whatever THAT means - is it a "bad" thing??), but they cannot reasonably say the same about the NFS.
Capisch? ;)
More later. . .
Oh, I have been raving. Sorry all.
Yes, I understand CF.
@Julie:
"Oh, I have been raving."
No. What you have been saying is actually quite cogent, and has given me some insights. . .
May I submit a crackpot opinion to this discussion?
"Patriarchy" is simply another word for...matriarchy.There,I said it.Patriarchs are little more than stooges for matriarchs.
The feminist attack patriarchy for two reasons.
Reason number one:they're greedy for power.The old patriarchy allowed matriarchs plenty of room for comfort.But if patriarchs are thrown out the palace window,that leaves a little extra room for matriarchs in the palace to "spread out",doesnt it?
Reason number two:consonant with their greed, feminists seek to exploitwhat already works in their favour to an extreme degree.Histrionic resistance to patriarchy elicit chivalric (patriarcal?) attempts at conciliation,while females continue to draw the usual advantages from older mores.
They really dont hate patriarchy.They love it for all of the license it affords them.
@anon:
"They really dont hate patriarchy.They love it for all of the license it affords them."
Excellent observations you have made! It has always been clear to me that feminism has introduced very little into the world that can truly be called *original*. The feminists have merely capitalized on preexisting cultural institutions and tendencies.They have EXTENDED these things. . .
Of course "patriarchy", as terminology, is just another feminist word trick. One of many . . . .
Hey,sorry for the boldface.I meant onlt to boldface "matriarchy" at the second line.How do you get html tags to stop!
@anon:
Your HTML didn't work either because you omitted the closing tag, or because the closing tag was incorrectly formed.
Quick HTML lesson: Here is the way to write correctly formed HTML, using the letter X as a "dummy":
<x>formatted text goes here</x>
Remember to include all spaces between words as per usual, either in or out of the tag space.
Blogger will not allow me to edit reader comments, otherwise I would be glad to fix your HTML.
@Julie:
Per what you said in the alpha channel:
The 'NFS' doesn't want to "destroy the courts". The sector is FAR TOO BROAD to share a single, common focus on such a narrow subject. However, it is certainly possible that certain groups within the NFS would desire such a thing. . .
Testing,hope you dont mind.
Your HTML didn't work either because you omitted the closing tag, or because the closing tag was incorrectly formed.
I left a space between the/ and b in the closing tag.Lets see if it works.
@anon, again:
Ya know what? It just occurred to me that "dummy" (used above) might be a politically incorrect word! :((
Snark, snark, snark! ;)
The 'NFS' doesn't want to "destroy the courts". The sector is FAR TOO BROAD to share a single, common focus on such a narrow subject. However, it is certainly possible that certain groups within the NFS would desire such a thing.
The NFS almost means anything and everything.
How can you justify it's existence this way?
Does it destroy or does it build? Where is the line when you are no longer accepted as a NF?
Julie said,
"In the bible, the children belong to God and the parents are given the responsibility to care for the children but they are not theirs."
"Under state control this is the same. Parents have no rights only responsibility. (This is feminist argument in government about father's rights"
When I was young, I went to church and heard the first argument. The idea behind it is that we are all God's children. Sad to say, though, this is only an ideal not the way people actually behave. Despite biblical admonitions "to love thy neighbor as thyself," blood is still thicker than water and our children are ours. They are the not children of the state in the same way they are children of God. The state is far more intrusive and unconcerned with children's actual welfare than any God should be.
The second argument is used by feminists as a matter of convenience against father's rights. In high school, most students become acquainted with the concepts of civic "rights and responsibilities" not as separable but as conjoined. To say that parents have responsibilities is to acknowledge their rights as parents. It is not a matter of "ownership" but of mutual care and belonging. The eventual responsibilities of children toward their parents should never be diminished nor forgotten.
In sum, parents need love too, including fathers. And that, in a nutshell, is what Father's Right's is about.
@Julie:
"The NFS almost means anything and everything.
How can you justify it's existence this way?
Does it destroy or does it build? Where is the line when you are no longer accepted as a NF?"
Julie, Julie, Julie....
The non-feminist sector just means everything in the universe which is NOT FEMINISM.
How do you "justify" it? The same way that you would "justify" the ocean, or the sky, or the stars, or the galaxies.
You DON'T! ;)
Feminism is the thing that needs to "justify" itself!
Guess it didnt work.I give up with htmls.
@anon:
Well. So. Did it work? ;)
@anon:
Watch this: bold italics. See? It works!
@anon, again:
You say you left a SPACE between the / and the b, INSIDE the closing tag? NO!! You don't want to leave that space. No spaces within the tags. Verboten!
No wonder it didn't work. . .
O.K.,I really hate to be a pest,but I'm going to shamelessly take advantage of your good nature and get to the bottom of this #@%&!* thing.(I'm really not this stupid,honest I'm not) ;)
In societies where religion plays a strong and important role, the institutions of the society reflect the religion. Yet in societies where religion plays a more secondary role to say that all political concepts are secularized theological concepts is an overstatement. While Carl Schmitt does make a persuasive argument on the role of religion in political thought, he is also mistaken. In this article, I shall attempt to show that political concepts in the medieval period were built upon theological ideas but in a way different from that described by Schmitt. Toward that end I'll describe the difference between “political theology” and a “theology of politics” and focus on the revelatory political theology of the medieval period as contrasted with the “re-paganized” theology of Schmitt. Finally, by reviewing the process of papal decline with particular emphasis on the writings of Martin Luther, I shall argue that the political theology Schmitt describes reflects a post-Reformation loss of competing “exception-bearers” in the West and that this loss has had profoundly negative consequences for Western civilization.
Used the "a" tag..No spaces within the tags.And no spaces between the text and the tag.
What does the term “political theology” mean? There is no limit to what it can mean: all theology may be considered “political” (from a postmodern perspective), or certain modern ideologies may be termed “political religions” (as, e.g., in Voegelin’s writings), and so on.
That should be italicized.Moving right along...
The work of Carl Schmitt presents another perspective. For Schmitt, political theology is the structure of political concepts as related to their origin in theological concepts. Within Schmitt’s view of the political, the theological notion of God transfers to the political sovereign a final and total authority in the person of a main decision-maker in extreme emergencies, an “exception-bearer” with whom the power of the state ultimately lies. The notion of the Absolute in religion is used in conceptualizing the Absolute in the state, starting with the “divine right of kings” and extending to the crisis of Schmitt’s own time
That shoul be bold face.But not this,hopefully.Thank you Fidel.
@anon:
Verrry interesting stuff you have quoted there! :)
As you will note, everything works except for the blue passage which, it seems, you intended as a hyperlink.
Well the link doesn't work. Too bad, cuz I'm a mite curious to see what's on the other end!
Here's how hyperlinks ought to go in HTML:
<a href="http://www.kadoozleharkin.com"> TEXT HERE </a>
Oh. . . in case you were wondering how I made the HTML display without executing as HTML . . .
It's because I used a little goody called an "escape sequence". In the code above, rather than type the < (less than) signs where they occur, I substituted &, followed by lt;
No spaces between those characters.
(If I wrote all three characters without spaces, it would display as a 'less than' sign (<).)
I don't know how to escape the escape sequence. :(
Anon, Don't worry about not knowing how to do things .... we all had to figure it out. CF is wonderful in this way. (and others)
Plus others learn through your learning.
You can also put a name to your work. Just above the option 'anonymous' is 'Name/URL'. You can use that to add a name. You don't have to put a URL.
Only if you want to that is.
@Marty Lee, I liked what you said about God and state.
I know about the God thing because I was involved in religion when I was young also.
I think it is good to have children beleive in a higher power. It gives them someone to call on when their parents aren't there.
"I think it is good to have children beleive in a higher power."
For example: Santa Claus.
Or. . . their invisible friend who lives inside the pillow! Har-har! ;)
CF, careful knocking the invisible friend. You'll have an uproar from 3/4 year olds.
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home