Lying About Domestic Violence-Part 1
Amfortas and ChristianJ have produced a series of hard-hitting podcasts which have high counter-feminist value, and deserve a listen. So, LISTEN!
Yes, even you feminists. Especially you feminists; if you don't listen to those podcasts, I will hold you responsible for your omission, and I won't cut you any slack. It's not our job to educate you about these things, so take your goddamn feminist privilege and stuff it, and then get your arse over there and listen to those podcasts! Oh, and you'd better spread the word amongst da sisterz also.
That's right, Feministgal: I'm talking to YOU TOO, grrl!
At any rate: the following podcast is by Amfortas, and is titled Lying About Domestic Violence-Part 1. It deals with the situation in Australia, but hey, we're all in the same boat everywhere!
The link below will send to you to a hosting page which features this particular podcast. You can either play the podcast directly from the page, or download the MP3 to your computer:
http://tinyurl.com/qkaue4
Over the next little while, I will gradually post more of these.
Yes, even you feminists. Especially you feminists; if you don't listen to those podcasts, I will hold you responsible for your omission, and I won't cut you any slack. It's not our job to educate you about these things, so take your goddamn feminist privilege and stuff it, and then get your arse over there and listen to those podcasts! Oh, and you'd better spread the word amongst da sisterz also.
That's right, Feministgal: I'm talking to YOU TOO, grrl!
At any rate: the following podcast is by Amfortas, and is titled Lying About Domestic Violence-Part 1. It deals with the situation in Australia, but hey, we're all in the same boat everywhere!
The link below will send to you to a hosting page which features this particular podcast. You can either play the podcast directly from the page, or download the MP3 to your computer:
http://tinyurl.com/qkaue4
Over the next little while, I will gradually post more of these.
posted by Fidelbogen at 8:49 PM
5 Comments:
This is a very long comment, but you should read it, because I (a feminist) took the time to listen to that podcast. Also, since you've said that feminists expect readers to be familiar with all aspects of feminism, I thought I'd provide you with a few handy and informative links:
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2004/10/feminism-101.html
http://www.amazon.com/Other-Double-Standards-Every-Should/dp/1580052452/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242723565&sr=8-1
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/intimate/ipv.htm
Now, the podcast is about Australia, of course, but obviously you both have a lot of the same opinions. What I want to point out is that he sites the flaws in a surveys that was published in 1996, and has since been replaced, as he also says, by better, more inclusive surveys conducted in 2000, and 2006. He doesn't mention any of their findings, though, nor the considerable improvements in the survey questions over the ones he mentions like "have you ever received an explicit phone call". The new surveys are also nationwide, and not small samples of the population. And despite his claims that women take small arguments and spin them into abuse cases, the analysis of the 2000 survey states that when violence cases involve intimate partners and other situations of domestic violence 44.5% resulted in arrests and men and women are equally likely to be identified as the primary aggressor, and thus arrested. Only about 43% of arrests or citations resulted in convictions, and women are equally likely to be convicted as men. Though, Men are twice as likely as women to commit the crime again. ( http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/publications/dv-dual-arrest-222679/ch2/findings.htm#four ) Overall is seems that his claims are largely based on outdated material, and speculation.
Actually I find it odd the way you both speak of women and feminists as this faceless mob of oppressors. I'm really wondering what exactly it is you want from us. You've made it abundantly clear that you don't want feminism, but what do you want then? Regression to pre-victorian gender roles? Submissive women with no rights and no political voice? I'd like to know, because if having agency over our own lives, advocating for awareness of violent crimes that primarily affect us, and pushing for fair treatment under the law is wrong, I'd like to know what you consider to be right.
That said, I'd like comment on your blog as a whole. I've read several of your posts, and apart from your apparent distaste for referencing facts or statistics, you seem to be laboring against a 'feminist' force that frankly, doesn't exist.
Yes, I know you have previously stated that you don't use statistics, because it is possible to skew the data and lie. I don't disagree with you that it is possible. However, it is paranoid at best to assume that most, if not all, published statistics regarding rape, domestic violence, etc. are distorted. To actively ignore them is just willful ignorance, and to base ideological arguments on speculation without fact is irresponsible. Theories aren't valid without solid evidence to back them, and hearsay is not solid.
Overall it seems your idea of what feminism is, and who feminists are, is just plain wrong. I really want to know what you are reading that has led you to believe some of the things you have written about feminists. As someone who is an active member of the feminist blogosphere, I can honestly say that yes, there are some women who spread hatred of men, but they are a really tiny minority. The vast majority of feminists really like men. In fact we have something in common with you. Your post titled "Ideas Which Go Against the Grain" (in which you introduce the 'pussy paradigm' and your alternative, the 'optionality paradigm') talks a lot about how men should stop valuing women's sexuality so much. We'd LOVE that! In fact many feminists would love for men to "play hard to get" as you put it, so we can be the ones to chase some tail, for a change. Instead, we're all constantly on the defensive from the abundance of unwanted advances we get daily. Feminists don't want female sexuality to be valued, we want our accomplishments, our educations, our minds, and our personalities to be valued. ( http://www.amazon.com/Purity-Myth-Americas-Obsession-Virginity/dp/1580052533/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242730242&sr=8-1 )
I'm not sure you value women at all, you seem to often talk about women as if we're all a bunch of identical, interchangeable, vaginas.
You also write a lot about false rape accusations. Undoubtedly that does happen, however it is wrong to suggest that women are not treated poorly by the justice system where rape is concerned. Often police will not take a woman seriously when she tries to report a rape, women have even been jailed for filing false reports, even when they're telling the truth. ( http://thecurvature.com/2009/04/03/actual-rape-victim-jailed-for-false-report/ ) According to the U.S. Department of Justice's 2006 survey on violence against women, 10% of rape victims who reported the crime, said the police did nothing. ( http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/210346.htm ) And even when it is proven that rape victims are being truthful, by DNA or other physical evidence, the common assumption is that she must have done something to deserve it. She must have been doing something, wearing provocative clothes, or flirting, that invited the assault. Victim shaming like that is one reason, among many, that only an estimated 40% of rapes are reported at all. ( http://www.rainn.org/statistics )This notion of 'good men' succumbing to the Mystical Pull of the Vagina is insulting not only to women, but to men as well, as it implies that when presented with an attractive female, men become violent, drooling, animals. Possessed by lust and incapable of self-control, morality, or any good judgement.
Put it this way, if someone stole your car, you'd call the police, right? What if the police don't believe you, and arrest you instead, for filing a false claim? What if the person who stole it was a friend you thought you could trust, who then swears in court that you let them borrow it, when you did no such thing? Even if they didn't crash the car or seriously damage it, it was still stolen from you, and grand theft auto is still a crime. That is very simplified, but it is essentially what rape victims face. Real feminists understand that false accusations hurt women most of all, because it provides people like you with ammunition for their attacks on our efforts to eliminate rape. I'm not saying that there aren't women who would maliciously accuse a man of rape where none was committed, but that doesn't mean that all rape victims are lying. In reality, agian according to the U.S. Department of Justice survey, of all the rape victims, only 3.3% filed reports that led to a conviction, and only 2.2% received any jail time. And according the the National Center for Policy Analysis, the the statistical average of rape convictions that lead to jail time, factoring in underreporting, is about 6%. So the probability that innocent men all over the country are going to be jailed on false rape charges, is slim at best.
The feminist agenda is much more focused on better sex education in schools, and fostering more open conversation about sex, in order to shine a light on the difference between sex and rape. ( http://jezebel.com/5139038/what-women-want-to-talk-about-what-women-want )( http://www.amazon.com/Yes-Means-Visions-Female-Without/dp/1580052576/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242723745&sr=8-1 )
There are a lot of opinions on the subject, and many 'gray areas', but rape, real rape, is often not really about sex at all. It is about power and dominance over another. (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19921101-000008.html) Which is one of the reasons it isn't just a women's problem, because heterosexual males rape other men as a show of dominance. It is a complex psychological problem, that goes far beyond common idea that they 'just want to get their rocks off', as you put it. For this reason there are also many feminists, myself included, who believe that incarceration alone is wrong approach, and education, therapy, and rehabilitation are what rapists should be sentenced to. Men also rape other men, of course, and there are women who rape men. Men are far less likely to experience a sexual assault though, 1 in 33, but when they do, then nearly never report it to the police.
Also, your claims that a rape victims suffers little to no lasting consequences. Rape victims often suffer severe depression, anxiety disorders, panic attacks, post traumatic stress, flashbacks, loss of sexual interest, and in some cases they become suicidal. ( http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/ptsd.html ) They lose time from work, school, and social life. Rape victims can pick up the pieces and move on eventually, yes, but it isn't something that ever really goes away, especially if they are surrounded by people who think they're somehow responsible. I don't think that the rape victim's, and the innocent man convicted for rape's sufferings can accurately be compared, but given the frequency with which rapes are committed, once every 2 minutes, it is not valid to suggest that most, or even many, convicted sexual offenders are innocent. ( http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault )
I can't imagine you've read much of the feminist writing that's out there, though. If you had, you'd know that the main issues at the center of feminism are:
-the wage gap ( http://www.iwpr.org/index.cfm )
-reproductive rights ( http://www.feministing.com/reproductive-rights/ )
-international and domestic political representation ( http://www.feministing.com/politics/ )
-prostitution reform ( http://jezebel.com/tag/sex-work/ )
-sexism in media and advertising ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLu6gJHTbo&feature=channel , http://jezebel.com/5153867/the-fling-candy-bar-a-pink-sparkly-marketing-mess )
-as well as domestic abuse ( http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/category/domestic-violence/ )
-and, yes, rape culture ( http://www.feministing.com/sexual-assault/ )
Plus any other problems or discrimination that primarily disenfranchises women, or otherwise inhibits our constitutional rights and freedoms. I'm sorry if your experiences have been limited to the few blogs out there that are hateful and not interested in educating others about feminism. I assure you there are better feminist blogs, with intelligent and well-read communities, who would be more than happy to discuss the finer points of your qualms.
- http://www.feministe.us/blog/
- http://www.feministing.com/
- http://www.harpyness.com/
- http://jezebel.com/
- http://www.racialicious.com/
- http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/
We are a diverse group, and we have many different opinions, but we all want to be treated fairly, just like you. You write about "feminist privilege" as if there's a mob of angry harpies keeping you down. Well, feminists are NOT privileged at all, women are not privileged. Why do you think we have such strong ties with the LGBTQ community, and organizations for racial minorities? Because we're the disenfranchised ones, we're the oppressed, not you.
( http://www.harpyness.com/2009/05/15/pregnant-bodies-piling-up/ )
In your post titled "Ideas Which Go Against the Grain" you wrote:
"Yes, if men feel compelled for any reason to seek female company, then to that degree they are in the power of women. And being in the power of women, they are but a tiny step removed from being in feminism's power as well—the feminists have seen to that."
Contrary to your beliefs, women gaining power, does not mean taking it away from men, it means SHARING power. It means learning to respect each other, and cooperate, because that is what democracy is. That's what the UNITED States of America is all about. Maybe instead of writing yet more biased, and largely false, accusations of some grand 'feminist' conspiracy that doesn't exist, you could write about how men and women should learn to listen to each other's perspectives, and work together toward a world where no one is oppressed.
If not, you should at least make the effort to back up your claims with facts.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2004/10/feminism-101.html
http://www.amazon.com/Other-Double-Standards-Every-Should/dp/1580052452/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242723565&sr=8-1
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/intimate/ipv.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Purity-Myth-Americas-Obsession-Virginity/dp/1580052533/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242730242&sr=8-1
Actually I find it odd the way you both speak of women and feminists as this faceless mob of oppressors. I'm really wondering what exactly it is you want from us. You've made it abundantly clear that you don't want feminism, but what do you want then? Regression to pre-victorian gender roles? Submissive women with no rights and no political voice? I'd like to know, because if having agency over our own lives, advocating for awareness of violent crimes that primarily affect us, and pushing for fair treatment under the law is wrong, I'd like to know what you consider to be right.
That said, I'd like comment on your blog as a whole. I've read several of your posts, and apart from your apparent distaste for referencing facts or statistics, you seem to be laboring against a 'feminist' force that frankly, doesn't exist.
Yes, I know you have previously stated that you don't use statistics, because it is possible to skew the data and lie. I don't disagree with you that it is possible. However, it is paranoid at best to assume that most, if not all, published statistics regarding rape, domestic violence, etc. are distorted. To actively ignore them is just willful ignorance, and to base ideological arguments on speculation without fact is irresponsible. Theories aren't valid without solid evidence to back them, and hearsay is not solid.
Overall it seems your idea of what feminism is, and who feminists are, is just plain wrong. I really want to know what you are reading that has led you to believe some of the things you have written about feminists. As someone who is an active member of the feminist blogosphere, I can honestly say that yes, there are some women who spread hatred of men, but they are a really tiny minority. The vast majority of feminists really like men. In fact we have something in common with you. Your post titled "Ideas Which Go Against the Grain" (in which you introduce the 'pussy paradigm' and your alternative, the 'optionality paradigm') talks a lot about how men should stop valuing women's sexuality so much. We'd LOVE that! In fact many feminists would love for men to "play hard to get" as you put it, so we can be the ones to chase some tail, for a change. Instead, we're all constantly on the defensive from the abundance of unwanted advances we get daily. Feminists don't want female sexuality to be valued, we want our accomplishments, our educations, our minds, and our personalities to be valued.
I'm not sure you value women at all, you seem to often talk about women as if we're all a bunch of identical, interchangeable, vaginas.
You also write a lot about false rape accusations. Undoubtedly that does happen, however it is wrong to suggest that women are not treated poorly by the justice system where rape is concerned. Often police will not take a woman seriously when she tries to report a rape, women have even been jailed for filing false reports, even when they're telling the truth. ( http://thecurvature.com/2009/04/03/actual-rape-victim-jailed-for-false-report/ ) According to the U.S. Department of Justice's 2006 survey on violence against women, 10% of rape victims who reported the crime, said the police did nothing. ( http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/210346.htm ) And even when it is proven that rape victims are being truthful, by DNA or other physical evidence, the common assumption is that she must have done something to deserve it. She must have been doing something, wearing provocative clothes, or flirting, that invited the assault. Victim shaming like that is one reason, among many, that only an estimated 40% of rapes are reported at all. ( http://www.rainn.org/statistics )This notion of 'good men' succumbing to the Mystical Pull of the Vagina is insulting not only to women, but to men as well, as it implies that when presented with an attractive female, men become violent, drooling, animals. Possessed by lust and incapable of self-control, morality, or any good judgement.
Put it this way, if someone stole your car, you'd call the police, right? What if the police don't believe you, and arrest you instead, for filing a false claim? What if the person who stole it was a friend you thought you could trust, who then swears in court that you let them borrow it, when you did no such thing? Even if they didn't crash the car or seriously damage it, it was still stolen from you, and grand theft auto is still a crime. That is very simplified, but it is essentially what rape victims face. Real feminists understand that false accusations hurt women most of all, because it provides people like you with ammunition for their attacks on our efforts to eliminate rape. I'm not saying that there aren't women who would maliciously accuse a man of rape where none was committed, but that doesn't mean that all rape victims are lying. In reality, agian according to the U.S. Department of Justice survey, of all the rape victims, only 3.3% filed reports that led to a conviction, and only 2.2% received any jail time. And according the the National Center for Policy Analysis, the the statistical average of rape convictions that lead to jail time, factoring in underreporting, is about 6%. So the probability that innocent men all over the country are going to be jailed on false rape charges, is slim at best.
The feminist agenda is much more focused on better sex education in schools, and fostering more open conversation about sex, in order to shine a light on the difference between sex and rape. ( http://jezebel.com/5139038/what-women-want-to-talk-about-what-women-want )( http://www.amazon.com/Yes-Means-Visions-Female-Without/dp/1580052576/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242723745&sr=8-1 )
There are a lot of opinions on the subject, and many 'gray areas', but rape, real rape, is often not really about sex at all. It is about power and dominance over another. (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19921101-000008.html) Which is one of the reasons it isn't just a women's problem, because heterosexual males rape other men as a show of dominance. It is a complex psychological problem, that goes far beyond common idea that they 'just want to get their rocks off', as you put it. For this reason there are also many feminists, myself included, who believe that incarceration alone is wrong approach, and education, therapy, and rehabilitation are what rapists should be sentenced to. Men also rape other men, of course, and there are women who rape men. Men are far less likely to experience a sexual assault though, 1 in 33, but when they do, then nearly never report it to the police.
Also, your claims that a rape victims suffers little to no lasting consequences. Rape victims often suffer severe depression, anxiety disorders, panic attacks, post traumatic stress, flashbacks, loss of sexual interest, and in some cases they become suicidal. ( http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/ptsd.html ) They lose time from work, school, and social life. Rape victims can pick up the pieces and move on eventually, yes, but it isn't something that ever really goes away, especially if they are surrounded by people who think they're somehow responsible. I don't think that the rape victim's, and the innocent man convicted for rape's sufferings can accurately be compared, but given the frequency with which rapes are committed, once every 2 minutes, it is not valid to suggest that most, or even many, convicted sexual offenders are innocent. ( http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault )
I can't imagine you've read much of the feminist writing that's out there, though. If you had, you'd know that the main issues at the center of feminism are:
-the wage gap ( http://www.iwpr.org/index.cfm )
-reproductive rights ( http://www.feministing.com/reproductive-rights/ )
-international and domestic political representation ( http://www.feministing.com/politics/ )
-prostitution reform ( http://jezebel.com/tag/sex-work/ )
-sexism in media and advertising ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLu6gJHTbo&feature=channel , http://jezebel.com/5153867/the-fling-candy-bar-a-pink-sparkly-marketing-mess )
-as well as domestic abuse ( http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/category/domestic-violence/ )
-and, yes, rape culture ( http://www.feministing.com/sexual-assault/ )
Plus any other problems or discrimination that primarily disenfranchises women, or otherwise inhibits our constitutional rights and freedoms. I'm sorry if your experiences have been limited to the few blogs out there that are hateful and not interested in educating others about feminism. I assure you there are better feminist blogs, with intelligent and well-read communities, who would be more than happy to discuss the finer points of your qualms.
- http://www.feministe.us/blog/
- http://www.feministing.com/
- http://www.harpyness.com/
- http://jezebel.com/
- http://www.racialicious.com/
- http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/
We are a diverse group, and we have many different opinions, but we all want to be treated fairly, just like you. You write about "feminist privilege" as if there's a mob of angry harpies keeping you down. Well, feminists are NOT privileged at all, women are not privileged. Why do you think we have such strong ties with the LGBTQ community, and organizations for racial minorities? Because we're the disenfranchised ones, we're the oppressed, not you.
( http://www.harpyness.com/2009/05/15/pregnant-bodies-piling-up/ )
In your post titled "Ideas Which Go Against the Grain" you wrote:
"Yes, if men feel compelled for any reason to seek female company, then to that degree they are in the power of women. And being in the power of women, they are but a tiny step removed from being in feminism's power as well—the feminists have seen to that."
Contrary to your beliefs, women gaining power, does not mean taking it away from men, it means SHARING power. It means learning to respect each other, and cooperate, because that is what democracy is. That's what the UNITED States of America is all about. Maybe instead of writing yet more biased, and largely false, accusations of some grand 'feminist' conspiracy that doesn't exist, you could write about how men and women should learn to listen to each other's perspectives, and work together toward a world where no one is oppressed.
If not, you should at least make the effort to back up your claims with facts.
@anonymous:
I agree, it is a very long comment. Oi! You have given me the 500-gallon treatment:
http://tinyurl.com/os4k2a
And you surely do relish the sound of your own words: it sounded so good, you said it twice, eh? ;)
But really: I might be jaded, yet I am not deaf, and I am nothing if not an attentive reader. . . . .
Y'know, it's like if the pizza dude shows up at your front door with 100 boxes of pizza that you didn't order, what are ya gonna do? Maybe, just maybe, you can pull 3 or 4 slices from a few of those boxes, and give them a nibble, but you can't chow on the entire lot: no way!
We MRAs have been dealing with feminists for years, so, we know how they operate. We've seen it all, you might say. . .
And you underestimate us, which could prove to be your undoing. You should not assume too much about what we've read or haven't read. And it happens that I have read THOUSANDS of pages of feminist writing in one form or another: books, articles, websites, etc. So. . I've got the lay of the land mapped out fairly well, and it is even possible that I know 1 or 2 things about feminism which you don't.You sound like you have read maybe 10 or 12 items on this blog. Well, the blog contains over 400 posts, so if you have read only 10 or 12 items, then you are in the dark about what is being said here. What's written on this blog is cumulative and contextual; it builds upon itself; it is a holistic entity. I admit it can be a challenge to read all of it, but it was no walk in the park writing it, believe me. . . ;)
Nor is it any walk in the park to read everything in the feminist tower of babble: I have only scratched the surface so far, and life is so short that I'm afraid that's all I will ever have time for. So no, it is not my job to educate myself about feminism, especially when I have already done this more than any sane person should be expected to do. You guys got a HUGE head start on us; your tower of babble soars to the high heavens by now, and you can easily overwhelm us and bury us. So. . . we MRA philosophers and other sector types are looking for various ways to level the playing field! ;)
(But hey, I don't "troll" on feminist blogs. They are constantly complaining about MRA trolls, but I'm not one of those. You say you are a blogger, so I hope you can appreciate that. ;) I have realized what a waste of time that is, so I am channeling my energy in a way that might prove more effective.)
CONTINUED in Following Comment
From the drift of your remarks, it appears to me you don't know much about feminism yourself: you are a classic study in feminist subjectivism.
Words on that pivotal subject here:
http://tinyurl.com/ptb8c3
And also HERE:
http://tinyurl.com/qccttc
That's a lot to read, but it's your call; I don't care either way.
Now, I may be drilling into the subject from an unconventional angle, but hey. . . whatever gets the job done. We MRAs have GOT to be unconventional, because we are breaking totally new ground. So we are pioneers. There is simply no other way to tackle it. As a certain feminist somewhere said: "You can't dismantle the master's house with the master's tools."
Feminist subjectivism is, among other things, a quaint misconception harbored by many feminists that they hold a monopoly privilege on defining feminism itself. But, as I like to put it, the battle for feminism's soul is under way; feminism is now an object for the world, and this can only become more evident as time goes on.
See, the trouble with feminist subjectivism is, that only self-described "feminists" get to tell the world what this thing called feminism "really" is, and they issue their pronouncements from within a fixed ideational paradigm, without factoring the objective impact of this paradigm upon the world external to the the mindset of those who embrace the paradigm. It should be clear that if you operate from within a paradigm, the paradigm becomes a lens, and what you see is consequently dictated by the shape of the lens itself. So, if you seek a dimensionally enriched view of reality, you must set aside the lens or at least consult with others who have done so. Such consultations may prove informative.
The feminist paradigm is, for my money, thoroughly problematized on a number of levels. . .
Now, I cannot hope to rewrite the entire blog here, but to sum up as best I am able:
The non-feminist sector is (for many reasons) equally entitled to define feminism, and self-declared feminists in particular are NOT the only valid source of information about feminism. And in many ways, they are the worst source for such information since they cannot be depended upon to see their OWN world as the rest of the world sees it. The outsider's perspective is sorely needed here, if we would be accurately informed and guided concerning the objective state of matters in the larger social ecology.
MORE LATER, perhaps. .
Fidel,
I'd break it down to an easier concept....
If feminism is allowed to define what "men" are, then we get to define what "women" are. It's that pesky little thing called equality. For some reason, feminism doesn't like it when it is applied. That tells me everything I need to know about it.
E. Steven Berkimer
Dear Anonymous, (feminist)
You should read this comment too because I (me) took the time to read your long comment above.
In fact many feminists would love for men to "play hard to get" as you put it, so we can be the ones to chase some tail, for a change. Instead, we're all constantly on the defensive from the abundance of unwanted advances we get daily.
It is not everyday young women get hit on unless they are in a pick up bar (or kind). You CAN choose good places to hang and good people to be around.
Feminists don't want female sexuality to be valued, we want our accomplishments, our educations, our minds, and our personalities to be valued.Feminist are woman and women want both.
Women want the men they want to chase them but they don't want the men they don't want to chase them.
In other words, women (including feminists) want selective chasing, (to be chased) and to do selective chasing.
Men want the same thing. They want to chase what they want and don't want to be chased by what they don't want. They don't want to be harassed by a female with a crush on them if they are not interested and they don't want to be stalked, set up against other men or the police, have their tyres slashed or car scratched with keys or their lives turned upside down with gossip and lies.
.......
Yes, you have everything in common with men if you just took the time to get to know them on a deeper level.
You don't need studies to do that and you don't need to be in a gang.
Life is as it has always been. Everyone wants to select the good parts and discard the bad. But life doesn't work that way. I think today's women have had it too easy and are too spiolt.
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