For the Record: I Did Not Write This!
Let none decieve you. What follows is not the "extremist fringe" of feminism; no, it is the "purist core". It is the fuel rod. It is the authentic face beneath the mask, that shall be revealed in the fullness of time as the mask progressively cracks and dissolves and crumbles away. Please believe me NOW. . and not later! I can positively assure you that feminism does NOT stoke its inner steam boiler on kum-ba-yah and touchy-feely drivel.
No, Feminism is not "liberal".
But here now, is what I did not write:
"Hello.
"First, Kyle is not “innocent until proven guilty.” He is, according to U.S. laws, “presumed innocent until proven guilty.” If he did what he is charged with doing, he hasn’t “undone it” simply because there is now a serious charge against him. Hence, “presumption of innocence,” not “innocence.”
"As many already know, most rapes aren’t reported, and most women who do take matters into the courts are violated there as well. In very few rape cases, in which there WAS a rape, does the rapist get any significant jail time, or any time at all. Meanwhile there is at least one black man in prison serving decades for pot possession. So much for justice.
"I posted this to Kyle’s page, and we’ll see if he leaves it up there:
"Re:
kylepayne.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/a-different-kind-of-pain/
kylepayne.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/radical-feminism-me/
"Publicly posted response by JR:
"You say you can’t speak about it publicly, Kyle. But that’s not true. You are choosing not to. Is that because you are facing criminal charges? Obviously facing charges doesn’t equal “guilt” of said crime. However, I don’t believe men (re: our racist sexism and misogyny) are entitled to what this country terms, to men’s tremendously self-serving and harmful-to-women-and-girls advantage, “privacy”. You may be choosing to participate in (and likely benefit from) a system that harms women in any number of ways: the legal and criminal justice systems are racist and misogynistic to the core, as you well know. As a white man who has been supportive of radical antiracist feminist and Womanist actions for a long, long time, I can tell you something you may already know: EXPECT profeminist men, including radically profeminist men, to fuck over women in any number of ways, inside and outside “the movement”. Myself included. Accountability is the issue here.
"What I tell the women who know me is this: I support you publicly discussing anything I do that harms you, in any way, as determined by you, not me. That is not usually what men tell women, is it? Usually we men try and silence and control women, and girls, don’t we?
"I can’t offer you any presumptions of innocence. No man I know, especially any white man, is “innocent” of harming women, sometimes in ways termed “sexual”, in racist patriarchy. Not one. You and I are no exceptions.
"The Rich White Duke Dudes aren’t either. They were guilty of overtly misogynist and racist acts, of denigrating and exploiting at least two women’s humanity (at least two that one night alone) by “renting” them to come to their frat home to perform as sexxx-things for their entertainment. Legal rape is another matter: those whiteboys DID (at least visually) violate and (at least verbally) denigrate two women. Of course in this country, there’s no crime there, except and unless either woman had “sex” with any of them, in which case the women could be charged with the crime of prostitution. We are not surprised.
"In Sweden, being a “john” (most often a procurer, renter, user of women and/or girls) is a crime. It should be a crime here also. A man having “sex” with an intoxicated woman should also be a crime and/or a civil rights/human rights violation, regardless of intent. Such acts should legally be considered a form of rape. Do you agree with that statement? Answering this is not about you or anything you have done, it is simply a statement of your values. I await your answer.
"I don’t know the details of what you have been charged with, and obviously cannot know the truth, or one of several truths–yours being the most “valid” and “believed” in this society–of the charges or claims. But why should you get “room to breathe”, “trust”, and “freedom from judgment and speculation based on incomplete information”, when no raped woman or any woman charged with anything (including the charge of being somehow responsible for a man’s or men’s rapist behaviors) ever gets any of those things, for even one day?
"What you are asking for is the advantage of your male supremacist privileges and entitlements; your statement above requests that they remain in tact during this challenging time for you and your family. I can certainly imagine it is a challenging time for your family. My heart goes out to them.
"But I don’t accept that any man’s male supremacist privileges and entitlements are legitimate to begin with. Including here, now."
I could recommend reading the entire comment thread, in order to get the flavor of that culture, and what certain people, alas, do tediously yap about! Please observe that I got the final word on that thread - in a comment posted during May, 2009:
fidelbogenThis is how it ought to be done. We merely assert our position -- coldly, factualistically, and non-chalantly -- as if it were common knowledge, but at the same time, as if planting seeds in people's minds. And at some point later on, others will come along with watering cans, to water those seeds and make them grow. . .
May 18, 2009 at 7:20 am
If the funky truth were known, the entire pro-feminist men’s movement is riddled with guys like Kyle Payne.
Really, what the hell drew them to feminism in the first place. .? Such things happen for a reason.
We are farmers. How does that grab ya. .?
posted by Fidelbogen at 6:10 PM
10 Comments:
Looks like this Julian Real charachter is projecting. He also, judging by his words, is a real self-hating misandrist bigot.
Those who have read your articles and postings mr. fidelbogen are able to distinguish your brilliant and intelligent style and manner of writing from fakes, such as this fake.
BTW, I'm glad you got your computer's issues straightened out.
@Anon:
Well, sort of. But now I am transmitting from an 1885 steam-powered model, based on a design by Blaise Pascal, and connected to the internet via coathanger wire. ;(
yeeeeshhhhh.
the scary part is that sort of weird shit is actively and enthusiastically taught and promoted in so many universities today.
I just completed a practical and non-insane course in logic and argumentation, and that drivil contained as many logical fallacies as there were premises!
it makes me sad for the western world, and actually kinda sad for the guy who wrote the post. he must utterly despise himself.
"But now I am transmitting from an 1885 steam-powered model, based on a design by Blaise Pascal, and connected to the internet via coathanger wire. ;("
but he's back! ;)
Fidelbogen said...
@Anon:
Well, sort of. But now I am transmitting from an 1885 steam-powered model, based on a design by Blaise Pascal, and connected to the internet via coathanger wire. ;(
2:20 PM
LOL! Good sense of humor (y)
Welcome back Fidelbogen.
Where to start?
"However, I don’t believe men (re: our racist sexism and misogyny) are entitled to what this country terms, to men’s tremendously self-serving and harmful-to-women-and-girls advantage, “privacy”."
Well,aren't you special? I suppose you also don't believe men are entitled to the money they work for or even air to breathe. Hitler would be so proud.
" You may be choosing to participate in (and likely benefit from) a system that harms women in any number of ways: the legal and criminal justice systems are racist and misogynistic to the core, as you well know."
Racist? Maybe. Misogynistic? Not on your life asshole. There's actually empirical,scientific proof that the OPPOSITE is true, as all members of the MRM are certainly aware. Case after case after case after case shows that young,attractive white women receive the most lenient treatment from the courts with black males receiving the maximum sentence most of the time. White males are somewhere in the middle.
If the Justice system is misogynistic, then a ten thousand year parade thrown in honor of women with round-the-clock castrations dedicated to Mary Daly would only begin to approach gender parity in the eyes of this feminist scumbag. In short, we're looking at the feminist Mao Tse Dong.
"What I tell the women who know me is this: I support you publicly discussing anything I do that harms you, in any way, as determined by you, not me. "
But, do YOU have the same support from THEM? If a woman ran into your house,pissed on your face,cut your balls off and then stole your address book and went down the list assaulting all of your relatives, and all this for absolutely no reason, what do you think the women whose feet you kneel at would say?
Absolutely nothing in the way of a "Men can be victims of women,too." or "This woman should be given the stiffest sentence available because she is a cold-blooded criminal!", that much I can assure you.
I can tell you that the response from these feminists, who you have given so much of your time and support to would most likely be a minimalization of the woman's actions, victim-blaming (you're a man, so you deserved it) and a healthy dose of shaming (quit whining,crybaby!).
Part 1
"That is not usually what men tell women, is it?"
No,usually when someone makes an assertion,men ask for evidence that this assertion is true.
"Usually we men try and silence and control women, and girls, don’t we?"
Not me. Hell,most guys I know are aware that it's futile to try and "silence" a woman. You can't even get some of them to shut up for long enough to eat.
"I can’t offer you any presumptions of innocence. No man I know, especially any white man, is “innocent” of harming women, sometimes in ways termed “sexual”, in racist patriarchy. Not one. You and I are no exceptions."
And here's where your argument breaks down. Women are not being kept in manacles and chains. They are free to come and go as they wish. If they were being harmed by our "racist patriarchy", why haven't women just LEFT?
It's simple, pack up your shit and move to Tahiti,if Tahiti's no good find some other island and go create your little sapphic lesbian paradise. NOBODY CARES. There are only two possible reasons that women have not done this, either most women are completely retarded or that our society is not a conspiracy to oppress women and most chicks are fine with things the way they are.
Take your pick,but either way, it means your argument is horseshit.
Seriously, if America is oppressing you, don't complain to us about it, just get the hell out. We were here first, so either go build your nation of bulldykes and castrati or shut the fuck up.
@Anon:
A page from my own policy manual: I eschew 'castration rhetoric' (even metaphorically) because it makes such an easy grappling point for those who wish to employ 'psychologizing tactics' either against the individual MRA, or against the MRM en masse.
Women moving to Tahiti? In such large numbers? Logistics alone would rule that out. Plus. . . I think that a lot of feminists are sticking around because they hope eventually to complete their revolution and create their "Tahiti" right at home, more or less. . .
As for Julian Real. . well, what he says is both a.) intellectually dishonest, and b.)logically defective. But the problem with arguing against such people is that you are wasting your time. It is as futile as shovelling back a mudslide from the bottom of a mountain.
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