A Message from David
However, even without looking, I can offer one bit of speculation. Really, it is simple. I would ask the blogmaster over there WHY women should go through life expecting people to BUY things for them? Is that not the part of a small child, play such a role? Don't we all eventually (at least in theory) grow up, and live as adults, putting away childish ways and paying for stuff our own damn selves? And when somebody BUYS something for us, do we not consider that a gift, an uncoerced, exceptional act which happens just occasionally, and worthy of special gratitude precisely by reason of its specialness?
That, or somewhat to that effect, is what I would say over at the Stone Jars website. And I would cap it off by very nonchalantly asking the blogmaster if he considers himself a feminist, and upon what criteria or criterion he grounds his self-assessment.
Note what I am doing in all of the above: I am simply posing QUESTIONS.
But enough already. Here is David's comment:
"David said..."Hi, everybody -
"Fidelbogen, I don't know whether you permit these sorts of comments on your blog. If you don't, I'm sure you'll let me know, and of course I will happily acquiesce. However I thought it was worth a shot.
"There is a little battle I'm fighting at a website called Six Stone Jars. It's a Catholic website about dating and it's the stomping ground of many a white knight, pedestalizer, mangina, and, of course, our good friend the testicle-crushing dominatrix. If you ask me, it's exactly where a militant MRA belongs. After all, the soldier best serves his purpose on the battlefield. Tell me I'm wrong.
"What may not be clear from a cursory scan of the site is that the author, though I would certainly consider him a good man, consistently takes men to task for various bad things we tend to do. By comparison he disciplines women very lightly - though he often praises their intrinsic value as women. None of these things, I would say, are bad in themselves; the problem, rather is what he does not do. By failing to take women to task as he does men, and by failing to praise men as fathers and husbands, Anthony Buono is subtly and unintentionally perpetuating the men/bad women/good meme. This is his crime against men.
"The topic of discussion today is whether men should pay the full bill on a date. Seems innocuous enough, right? Well, follow the below link and tell me whether anything troubles you:
http://www.6stonejars.com/index.cfm/2010/9/9/Men-pay-women-save
"The guy named "David" in the commentary is me. I am getting whipped by white knights and man-eating dominatrices. Their weapon is shaming language, inarticulate and irrational arguments their pretext. I could use some help. It's not that I think we will change minds, at least not completely. But I am easily dismissed while I fight alone. And what is the point of the MRM if not to guarantee no man fights alone?
"Help me, brothers.
"A final note - if you are interested in helping, bear in mind this is a chill, genteel Catholic website. The author moderates all comments. You will want to temper your language, refraining, as much as possible, from insults and curses. Otherwise your comments will simply not be posted. [I would recommend keeping a backup copy so you can share what you said, even if it doesn't survive moderation! -Fidelbogen]
"Do help me out. I would do the same for you."
posted by Fidelbogen at 7:03 PM
16 Comments:
I posted in A hurry and in anger and Yes I forgot to back it up.
I basically said the advice for men re dating was DONT BOTHER!!!
I mentioned suicides of men
I mentioned the ridicule the sneering and risk of sexual harrassment a man can get
by asking for dates.Some masculine
standard stuff. Nothing offensive I may have refered to dating as a mawkish abomination.I expect I wont be published I have the shaming lingo up to my eyes.
Those that use it are entitlement princesses.The level of delusion and arrogance among so many women confirm my decision to avoid dating completely.on that site the same old fembot lies about history the pay gap are all repeated with depressing predictabilty. Advice 4 Men
Men Dont Date
And dodge the Hate
Well, I posted.
It was long... I doubt it will ever go through!
"David" is up against Goliath of lies and a the usual mobbing that women do, and the lack of christian charity of these women is abundantly clear . I am a catholic.
I find even among catholic women or christian women in general feminist falsehoods are very apparent. They believe the feminist lies they have been indoctrinated with in colleges and the corrupt MSM. I have engaged in many such exchanges online and every single time the shaming language and entitled attitudes the patroninng condescending tone of the replies leads me to the conclusion I posted on their Site (I dont expect it to be published) that is -as above - Men Dont Bother Dating
They are admiting they want it both ways and the subjective and derisory responses They are the RED FLAGS that dating is a risky and ultimately these days pointless and soul destroying activity for men. We are supposed to turn the other cheek and I have done it over and over I am weary of womens double standards and bs
Enough already.
I dont claim saint hood I regularily tell the Good Lord Himself I cant take anymore and will he not hold it against me if I join the MGTOW posse. I dont think its a sin NOT To date.
it may well be the road to holiness. Leave the good women and bad women alike to God Certainly Do no evil Dont respond at all to all the insults The only expression us men are allowed is our absence and walking away. Which I now do as a matter of course. I am unable to trust women.
An elderly christain bachelor told me He would not let a woman across his doorstep. So little trust he has in them. "You know they get away with murder" he said "you woulld be mad to go near them!!!!"
I posted the following text but it still awaits moderation.
---
David is right when he prefers women who understand the concept of equal rights and responsibilites for both sexes without exceptions over women how want to benefit from the traditional-conservative masculine gender role AND modern female-only privileges.
You just can't have both - because the imbalance in rights and responsibilities between the sexes is unhealthy for society. It creates discontent and injustice and destroys our future.
In time the west will have to decide whether it returns to consequent conservative gender roles or whether it transitions into a state of true equal rights and responsibilities for both sexes without exceptions.
Greetings from a masculist,
Manifold
Die Söhne von Perseus
---
There is nothing better than a little bit of international support within the MRM ;-)
Done.
I went and said that the only tiem to pay for a woman is when she is a prostitute, and that paying for her makes her into a prostitute unles she is a family member or a close friend, and other wise there's a reason why when they hang inot your car, they ask "Hey mister, you wanna date?"
let's see how that goes over.
David,
I admire your chutzpah in taking such a radical - though patently obvious - message into such hostile territory (and yes, the language may be polite, but it oozes contempt for difference of thought).
Not that long ago we only spoke amongst ourselves, afraid to even say what we really thought on some of our own sites. Then we started taking it to a few newspapers that would dare publish us - and now many do. Now we're taking it to the citadels of chivalry, and not being completely repudiated.
Last are the feminist strongholds. Oh the joy when they start falling! It will be a moment to savor the rest of our lives, like seeing the Berlin Wall finally toppled.
Our numbers grow stronger every day while theirs are shrinking. It's only a matter of time.
Yup, mine did not make it.
It was a long post. Basically, I took the statements in the essay one by one and pointed out how they were "wrong" - or enforced incorrect stereotypes of men and women.
Interesting how some blogs/forums only accept those opinions that are in conjunction with the blog owners.
Well, it the discussion over there has taken a weird turn. Take a look at the last comment signed "David". I strongly suspect that David was banned and subsequently impersonated, and if my suspicion is wrong then David needs help all the more.
@Anon:
I am a catholic.. . .I dont think its a sin NOT To date. it may well be the road to holiness.
Hey, doesn't the apostle Paul say somewhere that it is "better not to marry"..? Well, if Paul were around now, I'm pretty sure he would update that statement to include "dating". . eh? ;)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Paul's got your back, pal!
@BASTA!:
The sad truth about David can be read on the Spearhead. It seems that he did in fact "cave".
Without meaning offence, David has always seemed to me to be the 'caving' type.
I wouldn't mention it, except he exhorted everybody else to join in on his behalf; and then in the midst of it all, having led his troops into battle, he turned and ran away.
There is a word for this, and it is cowardice.
"There is a word for this, and it is cowardice."
Additionally, some people just don't know how to pick their battles. It seems to me, that David didn't so much pick this battle as IT PICKED HIM.
Picked him clean to the bone, I would say.
I think the problem with his website (which I didn't even bother to comment on) is that, like so many others who rely on a groundless chivalry principle, there is no proper ordering of households. They have the material vestiges (what he calls "principle") of patriarchy without the authority over women, and submission of women which it simultaneously requires in order for it to work.
It irks me greatly that he represents the site as a faithful Catholic website on dating and marriage advice, when from the attitude above he shows that the very basis of how he considers Catholic families is screwed up and anti-thetical to everything which the Church has always declared with regards to Christian marriage. His lack of proper foundation for his advice is somewhat like having a marriage counselor who has been divorced three times.
@Manifold:
I thank you kindly for your well stated summation of the issues. I wish I could have put it half so well!
You're right, there is nothing like international support within in the MRM. We definitely need to get more of that Euro-Anglo teamwork thing happening!
Right now, the two "lobes" of the movement live in their separate capsules and don't communicate much. . . :(
I picked apart some of the women commenter's statements. I had a long comment but basically when the women said we should "pay for the privilege to court them", exact words,btw, that hiring a prostitute would be cheaper and not as masochistic in nature as the prostitute is paid to satisfy you and the "Christian" woman you marry is not required to do so.
I guess these women are counting on manginas like the male commenters there to stay cowed and actually cave to these female supremacist attitudes entirely.
I,on the other hand, am counting on male rationality to win the day. Even a male masochist will not pay more for the same service, and that done with less efficiency. It does not compute in the male mind.
"Right now, the two "lobes" of the movement live in their separate capsules and don't communicate much. . . :("
Absolutely. With you 100% there,my friend. All men need to find some common ground and get past the "My country is better" argument for long enough,at least, to get something done in men's rights.
As men, we are all brothers.
German men,British men,and Indian men have made enormous gains in elevating men's rights recently,if we could all come together imagine what could be accomplished for us all.
". .the women said we should "pay for the privilege to court them", exact words,btw,"
I am stunned that anybody would make such a statement at all! Stunned!
What is most stunning, is that THEY don't think this is stunning! They cannot "hear" how stunning it is, because they cannot "listen to themselves". But that is what happens when you live in a bubbleworld where nobody 'begs to differ' with you. You get stuck on yourself to the point where you cannot see yourself (or your peer group) as others see you (because in an echo chamber there is no feedback to make this possible!)
"All men need to find some common ground and get past the "My country is better" argument for long enough,at least, to get something done in men's rights."
But IS there such an attitude out there? Maybe there is, and I just haven't seen it? The main problem I see, is the language barrier (and maybe culture barrier too) between the Anglosphere and the Eurosphere (which sort of includes non-euro areas as well). I have a hard time believing that the global MRM contains much nationalistic chauvinism, because it makes absolutely NO sense, and because I think most MRAs are instinctively smarter than that!
(I am more and more aware of divsions between different schools of thought in the MRM, and tensions between PUAs and MRAs, of course.But as for that nationalistic stuff, well, maybe I am just too dense to know about it?)
"German men,British men,and Indian men have made enormous gains in elevating men's rights recently,"
Let's not forget Spain, Italy, Scandinavia and MEXICO . . . all of which have MRA activity going on.
The USA is lacking in politically organized MRA activity, , yet there is plenty of non-feminist activism of various kinds (just not the MRA kind).
However, I am guessing the USA is the hotspot for cyberspace propagandizing/recruiting. It is clear to me that Americans are TALKING about this stuff more and more, if so far not really DOING much.
But the volume of sheer TALK is growing and growing, and that, I think, is good. Political consciousness raising is dangerous to the enemy.
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