Wednesday, December 22, 2010

Word Travels Fast on the Street

Yesterday, I published a writeup on the promising and exciting Men's Voting Alliance. Since posting, I have gotten a sharp spike of visitor traffic. That is not unusual, of course. Whenever I post something more-than-normally "juicy", I will get such exaggerated bursts of activity. In fact, any new post gets at least a modest influx. But this time, the spike went clean through the roof and cleared the treetops in a phenomenally short time, and now, going into the second day, gives no sign (yet) of slowing down!

And yes, an abnormally large amount of the entry traffic was targeted to that post page specifically!

I'm not sure how this happens. By what magic do all of those people suddenly know what is going on? Does the info get "shotgunned" into an e-mail tree all at once by just a few individuals? Perhaps. But then again, I see no evidence in my web stats. (You can tell when somebody arrives from an e-mail link, and I'm not finding much of that!)

Finally, is it enemy traffic, friend traffic, or a bit of both?


All right, I think I will continue along the same vein as yesterday's post, when I ruminated upon the texture of the political landscape which the feminist regime has imposed on the world. And when I say "the world" I mean, of course, the non-feminist sector. That's us -- and we didn't ask for this!

Men and women are now separate political power blocs. We have no good reason to assume otherwise. This is a plain, simple, objective, pragmatic, hard-headed fact. And it is not hard to understand why this has come about, given that feminism has worked so hard for so many years to raise political consciousness among women, and to form the female collective psyche upon the paradigm of "sisterhood". Women have been taught that they are victims to whom compensation is owed, and this meme has taken deep root as a cultural narrative among critical numbers of the female population. It has become self-sustaining and self-validating, which was the intended outcome all along.

Women, in short, are politicized. The Redstockings Manifesto (as a prime example) laid the plan out years ago, and we are living with the fruit of it today. A lot of women nowadays (under feminist tutelage) think that women are "special" and due for special treatment, and a host of laws, policies, institutions, and lobbying groups stand ready to cater to this expectation, while a host of feminist agitators work to foster the growth of ever deeper and moar elaborated expectations. And in the midst of all this hustling and grabbing, the well-being of half the human race -- the male half -- is frankly not much noticed or talked about. The feminists are fine with that, and they even have a special, light-hearted saying which is akin to "let them eat cake". This special feminist witticism is: "What about teh menz?"

Men are being run over -- sometimes with malice aforethought, other times in sheer ignorance, but either way the consequences are on a par. In fine, it is not a fine thing, to be run over.

Bearing in mind what we have lately touched upon, it is easy to understand why men and women are now separate political power blocs. Political self-awareness is widespread among women, but up until recently, very limited among men. This means that men aren't much of a power bloc at all, but more like a power vacuum. For whatever power men might have, it is not self-aware power of men-as-a-group distinguished from that of women as a group. Sisterhood is currently thicker than brotherhood, and men, putting it briefly, do not exist politically as men. They lack what, in Marxian terms, would be called a class consciousness.

And lacking such, they are patsies and pushovers in the path of feminist aggression.

It is never the nature of power bloc A to be altruistically concerned for the health of power bloc B, for if such were the case, their differentiation as blocs would never have come about. And if power bloc B is politically unaware of itself, it will take the worst end of the business in most cases. Men, then, are power bloc B. And men must, both for their own good and for the good of the non-feminist revolution, agree to bond in brotherhood and solidarity. This needs to happen one way or the other.

Once again, men must exist politically as men or they will be thrown under the bus. In saying this, I am grimly aware of how unhealthy it is for the human race that men and women should be separate political interest groups. It is simply not natural, and a house divided against itself cannot stand. But, the house is already divided against itself anyway! Feminism made this happen, and feminism is a war against men. Therefore, if feminism is to be counteracted, it is MEN who must take the initiative in bringing this about. Men, being themselves the ground zero of feminist aggression, are in a unique position of understanding and therefore uniquely qualified to undertake the necessary operations.

And so, the pro-male men's movement (as opposed to the pro-feminist men's movement) will always be, and must always be, a key force in the non-feminist revolution as a whole.

Whatever is good for men, is bad for feminism; whatever is good for feminism, is bad for men; whatever is bad for men, is good for feminism; whatever is bad for feminism, is good for men. . .

82 Comments:

Blogger BoycottAmericanWomen said...

I have started a new blog called Boycott American Women, please add a link to it on your blog, thanks

http://boycottamericanwomen.blogspot.com/

4:23 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@B.A.W:

Do you mean that you would be honored to be linked?

I'll go take a look at the new blog. . .

7:19 PM  
Anonymous Snark said...

Re: the BAW blog.

Agent provocateur / feminist attempt at satire ... ?

I would be more convinced of its authenticity if the trains of thought were remotely logical.

3:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The feminists are fine with that, and they even have a special, light-hearted saying which is akin to "let them eat cake". This special feminist witticism is: "What about teh menz?""

Very good analogy of how a privileged woman deals with the dissatisfaction of those she despoils to maintain her privilege: "Let them eat cake".

Well,sisters, heads rolled the last time that phrase was uttered and they will roll once more.Life will get very good shortly...very good FOR US,that is.
You will pay for your evil and treachery the way despots have always paid.

You girls should use some of that "verbal superiority" to read up about the conditions that helped to create the Communist Revolution in Russia, the Maoist Revolution in China,the Democratic Revolution in America and the French Revolution. Or better yet, just turn on the tv and watch the news, you can watch it happening right now. You guys are the ones in the seats of power now, this is OUR revolution.See you on the other side.

Viva La Revolucion!

5:13 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"You girls should use some of that "verbal superiority" to read up about the conditions that helped to create the Communist Revolution in Russia, the Maoist Revolution in China,the Democratic Revolution in America and the French Revolution."

Well, this lays it on a TAD thick, perhaps. But the underlying logic of revolution pertains.

Also, remember the phrase non-feminist revolution. Plenty of women are non-feminist, and that is a fact that needs to be foregrounded and spotlighted a lot more in the days ahead.

So. . instead of talking about "you girls", it would be better to compose such passages somewhat as: "You should use some of that verbal superiority. . etc", and drop the "girls" part.

It will be understood by plenty of readers that female verbal superiority is meant, but it does not expressly make women per se the rhetorical target. On the face of the words, it could as well be taken to mean a subset of women.

It just might ALSO be taken to include pro-feminist males, who tend to be upper-middleclass college-educated types, and as such, might be assumed to have higher verbal skills.

We, as counter-feminists, need to polish these fine points of analysis and speculation -- and ultimately practice!-- until they gleam.

As to the legendary verbal skill of women: Is it a myth?

I have conversed with plenty of women in my day, of all descriptions, and I've met nary a one 'em yet that I couldn't verbalize rings around! But maybe I'm just the exception that way.

Or could it be that women's alleged "verbal superiority" is nothing but a tendency to talk MORE?

Thus measuring verbal skill in merely quantitative terms?

I'm not sure what to think here . . .

12:45 PM  
Blogger BoycottAmericanWomen said...

BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN

Why American men should boycott American women

http://boycottamericanwomen.blogspot.com/

I am an American man, and I have decided to boycott American women. In a nutshell, American women are the most likely to cheat on you, to divorce you, to get fat, to steal half of your money in the divorce courts, don't know how to cook or clean, don't want to have children, etc. Therefore, what intelligent man would want to get involved with American women?

American women are generally immature, selfish, extremely arrogant and self-centered, mentally unstable, irresponsible, and highly unchaste. The behavior of most American women is utterly disgusting, to say the least.

This blog is my attempt to explain why I feel American women are inferior to foreign women (non-American women), and why American men should boycott American women, and date/marry only foreign (non-American) women.

BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN!

5:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not all women are feminists and not all feminists are women.

9:00 AM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

@BAW
Wow. As an American woman, I'm offended at that. I might be a Dominant woman and I might be a career woman, but I certainly can cook, clean, I'm monogamous, and I desire children. I have a husband that I love and cherish, who tries very hard to please and serve me. I appreciate the men in my life and I certainly dislike feminism and those who suscribe to the ideology.

1:44 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@LadyCatherine:

Eh. . yes, quite so! There is a certain subset among the Male Mutiny whose "politics" (if I may so term it!) is transparently and principally based upon their social dissatisfaction with women. Their way of thinking is not politically efficient, in my opinion. Unfortunately, they impart far to much branding to what the rest of us are trying to build.

Not to say that they are unentitled to their (possibly malformed) opinions, mind you. But their undisciplined rhetoric is counterproductive.

Besides, if they have truly despaired of women (American or otherwise), then they ought to evolve to the next level where women hardly trouble their thoughts at all!

Really, they mix the personal with the political, and that is not the recipe!

5:25 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"Not all women are feminists and not all feminists are women."

Spot on! Or as I like to say "biology is not ideology."

5:33 PM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

@Fidelbogen
Of course! I'm pretty sure many men have been hurt by women, just as the same could be said for many women who have been hurt by men. I just think that making sweepong generalizations is bad, regardless of your ideology. I could give a real life example but to compare this with it would invoke Godwin's Law, make a Redutio ad Hitlerum and slippery slope argument, and would be on the extreme side. *insert epic logical fallacy for Fidelbogen's convenience* ;-)

4:57 AM  
Anonymous silentblood said...

"(as opposed to the pro-feminist men's movement)"
So...issues facing men are the results of "patriarchal privilege and power"?

Bob Pease makes me puke at his ignorant hate of traditional masculinity(even though I'm not exactly your traditional picture of maleness).

8:55 AM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

@Snark:

"Agent provocateur / feminist attempt at satire ... ?

I would be more convinced of its authenticity if the trains of thought were remotely logical."

Can you elaborate?


@Lady Catherine:

"As an American woman, I'm offended at that"

What offends you exactly? Like - which article - or just the title of the blog - I am curious.


It appears this person "bombed" almost every blog in the manosphere?? and put a link to it there...

I thought it was boring - but I was not offended by it, nor did I think it was "unauthentic"??

I am just wondering why it caused such a "stir"?

Proves how dumb I am.

10:09 AM  
Anonymous Snark said...

@ Scarecrow:

"Can you elaborate?"

There are several blogs already existing on the same theme (e.g. Niceguy's American Women Suck), but there was no doubt about their authenticity.

This blog, seems like a gauche parody of those.

I refer you to these gems:

"I don't do well with American women anymore. They just seem so selfish relatively speaking. I think the high divorce rate proves this. ... The same is not true for foreign guys. The ones I know are very selfish and expect women to do what they say."

"Not all women are this sadistic, but I know if I were given every thing and never held responsible I would be the same way."

"Many American women cheat on their partners (yes, American men do too, but I know the real statistics and women are almost just as bad)."

There are punchlines like these scattered throughout these 'testimonials.' Seems pretty clear to me it's a feminist parody!

Even the blog's acronym gives it away ... 'BAW.'

10:29 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@Snark:

Apart from what you have pointed out (concerning the BAW blog), I feel that there is a glut of such themes and rhetorics already, gumming up the gears of the "movement" and . . uh. . branding it.

Too many guys moaning and kvetching about women.

Too much woman-centric discourse.

And woman-centric discourse offers grappling points galore. Bad for rhetorical discipline!

Again, too many guys "bitching about the bitches" in one way or another.

We politically-minded strategists and policy wonks SERIOUSLY need to distance ourselves from the bitch-bitchers, and establish a separate brand.

11:02 AM  
Anonymous Snark said...

@ Fidelbogen,

Way ahead of you! ;)

11:25 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"Way ahead of you! ;)"

Hold on a sec, I'll grab my binoculars.

11:53 AM  
Blogger notanmra said...

Divide and Conquer

12:06 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"Divide and Conquer"

Quite revelatory.

12:25 PM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

@Snark:

you think that blog is a farce?

I am going to examine the writings a little more.

Why do I always feel like such an idiot?

Do you know the muffin man?

1:09 PM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

"What offends you exactly?"
The tone of his post. It's the same as generalizing all men as rapists or wife-beaters.

6:22 PM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

@Lady Catherine:

He is generalizing American or Western Women.

Don't most in these circles do that?

Please do not make this a witch-hunt.

I do not support the site - I am merely investigating it. And gathering opinions about it. the BAW observation that Snark made intrigues me. He has also claimed that it may be feminists making a parody or a farce of a - shall we say - typical MRA style blog?

The spelling on the most recent post is terrible.

I run spell checker before I post my blog entries, but sometimes I forget...

I wonder who started that blog.

Also, Doug, Mark, James and Frank - all sound like names pulled out of a hat.

I could pick 4 random MEN from where I work - I would not end up with any of those names.

7:45 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@ScareCrowe:

Fear not, I don't think she is starting any witch hunts. ;)

That said, you should note that I am not linking to that website. I think my linkroll is too bloated already, and I believe I shall be weeding it -- especially since some of those sites are long since dead-ah-dee-dah!

8:22 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"I could pick 4 random MEN from where I work - I would not end up with any of those names."

Hmm. . let's see if I can dream up 4 male names that sound random and natural:

Ken, Jason, Matt, Brandon

How'd I do?

Let's try that again:

Robert, Neil, Andrew, Casey

How'd I do?

8:36 PM  
Anonymous AlekNovy said...

All these "boycott american women" types are annoying to tell you the truth. I see this in whatever country I go to.

Here in eastern europe men say how "eastern european women suck, american women are so awesoome"... And then american men say the opposite. Its the same in any country. These guys are living in the "grass is always greener on the other side" mode.

But I think Fidelbogen put it best when he said "then they ought to evolve to the next level where women hardly trouble their thoughts at all! "

If a guy is reactive/angry/bitter/mad at women as a group, it means he hasn't grown past the phase where his emotions are tied into women's approval/disapproval.

I think these bitter boys give the whole MRA-movement a bad name. They're really guys who never grew up, are still pissed off that some girl in high-school rejected them, and now they've joined MRA for the wrong reasons.

10:29 PM  
Anonymous AlekNovy said...

""""Again, too many guys "bitching about the bitches" in one way or another.

We politically-minded strategists and policy wonks SERIOUSLY need to distance ourselves from the bitch-bitchers, and establish a separate brand.""""

AMEN!

I say we mock them any time they arrive on any serious blog post and start vomiting their personal issues... We seriously have to start disassociating from these types.

10:32 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@AlekNovy:

Yes, AlekNovy, that sounds eastern European all right!

". . pissed off that some girl in high-school rejected them, and now they've joined MRA for the wrong reasons."

Yes, admittedly, a lot of MRA types do tend to sound that way, although I happen to know that plenty of them got into this scene for VERY serious reasons, often involving personal tragedy! Which makes it most unfortunate that some of them often sound the way some of them often sound!

And so I will repeat what I said earlier about woman-centric discourse. More and more, I am thinking that the pro-male men's movement needs to split up into separate brands -- the policy wonks and intellectuals who practice rhetorical discipline, versus those who . . well, those who want to sit around complaining about women, and relationships, and their sexual frustrations, etc, etc. The bitch-bitchers, in other words!

At any rate. . the intellectualization of the pro-male men's movement is in the works. Stay tuned.

11:01 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"I say we mock them any time they arrive on any serious blog post and start vomiting their personal issues... We seriously have to start disassociating from these types."

Well, not quite. I say we kindly explain things, and initiate them, and . . if they persist, THEN let the mockery get started.

Separation of the personal from the political is a critically important task. . and such chaps don't seem to realize how they are falling right into the feminist trap in so many ways.

11:11 PM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

@Scarecrow
Don't worry! I won't witch hunt anyone! ^_^ I was having a terrible day yesterday, but I'm much better today.

3:12 AM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

@Fidelbogen

Sorry, that came out wrong. What I meant by "witch-hunt" was that since I am not bashing the site - I therefore must like the site.

I.E. If I question whether or not there really is a witch - then I myself am I witch.

The comment was not aimed at Lady Catherine specifically.

Sorry Lady Catherine if that is how it came out...

It was aimed at everybody.

Doug, Frank, Mark, James.

You did better as far as randomizing - your names seems more "random".

So, Fidelbogen - do you think that site is real?

Or a feminist farce?

Sorry - like I said, it has me curious.

8:41 AM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

P.S.
@Fidelbogen
"I say we kindly explain things, and initiate them, and . . if they persist, THEN let the mockery get started."

I say if at first you do not succeed, try again, and again, and again, and again - until your head explodes - then turn your back on them - and do not mock.

That would just make you a

bitch-bitch-bitcher.

8:46 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"I say if at first you do not succeed, try again, and again, and again, and again - until your head explodes - then turn your back on them - and do not mock."

No. It is not good to let your head explode; I would stop short of that occurrence. ;)

Also, there is a way to make a badly needed point without sounding like you are "bitching", (or whining). File this under Rhetorical Discipline.

Finally, whether you mock or ignore, one way or another they must get the message that their strategic approach completely lacks strategy -- and is politically counterproductive.

Timed, antiseptic bursts of "mockery" have their place, I think, at times. However, you must know when to quit.

10:24 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@ScareCrowe:

Concerning the B.A.W. blog.

Not only do the names sound "wooden", but the narratives attached to those names sound potted. . and they sound like they were all written by the same person.

They remind me of those testimonial blurbs for snake-oil products, where "C.W. in Altoona,PA" says this, and "Hattie S. in Plano,TX" says that, etc, etc..

10:39 AM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

Interesting, but BAW is not really selling anything?

Or - am I missing something.

It strikes me as being - perhaps a kid - like a teenager - that is just rambling?

As far as the head exploding thing.

You really ought to try it - its a blast!

10:57 AM  
Anonymous AlekNovy said...

"""and such chaps don't seem to realize how they are falling right into the feminist trap in so many ways."""

So true. I find it ironic that they're doing EXACTLY what feminists want them to do. Hook, line and sinker...

Most feminist blog-posts and writing and articles are written in such a way as to rile guys up. Its ironic, but this is a perversion of the basic female drive to get attention.

When a female can't get attention through attraction, the drive gets perverted into getting attention by riling/annoying/pissing off guys. And what's feminists do... And a lot of MRA are falling right into the trap.

Here's a hint for these guys. If you still feel anger/emotional reactiveness when reading feminazi crap... You've been had. If you can't read one of those pieces and rationally and intellectually dismantle it without feeling hurt or like they're beating you up personally... then you've been had.

11:19 AM  
Anonymous AlekNovy said...

"""Separation of the personal from the political is a critically important task"""

And I think there's a fine line. Because to some extent this stuff is inter-related to the personal...

So its an issue of separating from the personal-personal... I.E personal cases, personal life experiences, insecurities, personal dealings with women in your personal life.

But we do need some attachment to the personal in general terms, such as covering dating, marriage, personal relations to women in a GENERAL *male-centric* sense.

The infamous "against the grain" post is a great example of how to relate to "women" on a general level.

General mindsets, frames and ideas on how to relate to women as a gender are fine. Dealing with sexual frustration and how to look at sex in general are fine. Why? Because they're male centric. Its about what you do, in order for you to experience a change in you.

Discussing how to "game" and "pick up women" however have no place in the MRA. Not only because those are scam concepts that don't work, but because they're women centric, instead of male centric. They're focused on what to do/say/perform for women or on women. They're centred on how women react and how to get certain reactions out of women.

11:47 AM  
Anonymous Snark said...

"Discussing how to "game" and "pick up women" however have no place in the MRA."

To me this seems like it would cause unnecessary divisions among our ranks. There are many who combine the MRA and PUA activities, and quite reasonably so.

I think Fidelbogen is right in saying we must separate the personal from the political.

An opinion that PUAs are selling snake oil is fine, but don't let that personal view come in the way of what is politically expedient. TFH in his Misandry Bubble article points to the use of Game as a tool for male emancipation. Not for everyone, I agree - I prefer the MGTOW philosophy - but then there is no external obligation on anyone to become a PUA. It's simply a choice.

12:29 PM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

@AlekNovy:
"...Not only because those (game) are scam concepts that don't work, but because they're women centric, instead of male centric. They're focused on what to do/say/perform for women or on women. They're centred on how women react and how to get certain reactions out of women."

You nailed it.

This has always been my objection to game - it is making men perform like trained seals or something.

And - I have tried most of the "game" suggested on various sites - it does not work.

AND:

"When a female can't get attention through attraction, the drive gets perverted into getting attention by riling/annoying/pissing off guys"

You nailed it again.

This is similar to a brat throwing a temper tantrum.

When I feel anger or whatever when reading feminazi crap - I simply poke fun at it - while at the same time, I try to point out how absurd it is.

And a quick question for all:

Can this "stuff" be performed without "b*tching about the b*tches" a little bit?

It seems to me - like an open honest, objective analysis of what the larger portion of women have turned into post-feminism MUST be done.

Isn't that b*tching about the b*tches?

Or am I just b*tching about the b*tchers who b*tch about b*tch-b*tchers?

12:40 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@All:

The discussion is getting verrry interesting. However, I must now venture out into the "real world" on an errand or two. But when I get back I will dig into this like a platter of roast beef, you may be sure! :)

12:49 PM  
Anonymous Snark said...

"This has always been my objection to game - it is making men perform like trained seals or something."

Actually, it's getting women to perform like trained seals.

Game is simply inevitable given sexual scarcity (i.e. overinflated female self-esteem) in a post-marriage society.

Better to side with them rather than against them.

1:29 PM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

@Snark - depends on what "game" sites you go to - some of them simply make men cater to women - others - are just plain stupid.

I haven't found one yet that I respect 100%.

3:05 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@All:

The following post, posted 2 years ago, sets the mood that needs to be set right NOW:

Find Your Mountain-top

3:06 PM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

@ScareCrow
No problem ^_^

"And - I have tried most of the "game" suggested on various sites - it does not work."

It depends on the women and what they're attracted to. For example, I'm attracted to vulnerable and submissive men, it makes me feel protective and maternal(and totally turned on) when I see my husband vulnerable and upset. The problem is that cookie cutter ways to pick up women doesn't work. I know several women who might be attracted to Game, I'm not.

@AlekNovy
"But we do need some attachment to the personal in general terms, such as covering dating, marriage, personal relations to women in a GENERAL *male-centric* sense.

The infamous "against the grain" post is a great example of how to relate to "women" on a general level.

General mindsets, frames and ideas on how to relate to women as a gender are fine. Dealing with sexual frustration and how to look at sex in general are fine. Why? Because they're male centric. Its about what you do, in order for you to experience a change in you."

I agree to an extent, the problem is since male sexuality is just as likely to be complicated as female sexuality(and I have terrible rants about the supposed female hypergamy), general advice for things like dating or marriage probably won't cut it.

@Snark
"Not for everyone, I agree - I prefer the MGTOW philosophy - but then there is no external obligation on anyone to become a PUA. It's simply a choice."

Absolutely, as a woman, I admire MGTOWs, no matter what form they take. Whether they are in a long-term relationship, a celibate, or even a PUA, they are being individuals and that's very admirable in Western culture.

3:19 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@All:

Where to begin, where to begin . .

Feminism's prime directive, years ago, was the shotgun marriage between the personal and the political. The Redstockings Manifesto sets the tone (in 1969) as follows:

"Because we have lived so intimately with our oppressors, in isolation from each other, we have been kept from seeing our personal suffering as a political condition. This creates the illusion that a woman's relationship with her man is a matter interplay between two unique personalities, and can be worked out individually. In reality, every such relationship is a class relationship, and the conflicts between individual men and women are political conflicts that can only be solved collectively."

The exact saying that 'the personal is political', originated (to the best of our knowledge) with Carol Hanisch, a member of the Redstockings Group herself. But note especially the bolded bits above. This theme has been echoed, amplified,elaborated and put into practice in a thousand ways over the years.

(The Redstockings were a Marxist group, and so the Marxo-totalitarian flavor of all this ought not surprise us. AlexNovy, I don't know exactly what part of eastern Europe you are in, but historical memory of such things is still fresh, I am sure!)

All right, our prime directive as activated non-feminists is to pry apart the personal from the political, or block their continued amalgamation in whatever form.

Feminism gains the bulk of its strength from mingling the realm of personal life (family, friends, neighborhoods, private thoughts and feelings, etc..) with the custodial prerogatives of state power or public discourse in whatever form. Interestingly, socialism works pretty much the same way -- but that is a tangent to the present discussion.

[Continued in next installment]

4:16 PM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

Hold on.
I'm speaking as an ex-communist-turned Libertarian.
[nitpick]
Socialism =/= totalitarianism. Socialism is an economic system that is designed to place people on equal footing. Communism on the other hand is a political and economic system designed to prevent the bourgeosie from oppressing the proletariat. Feminism is closer to communism[/nitpick]

7:01 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@All:

[Continued]

I'm not sure I made the personal-political connection clear enough in my previous comment. But y'all may have noticed that feminists love to engage in ad hominem tactics of one kind or another, so that what ought to be a purely political discussion often turns into (and centers upon) a discussion of matters pertaining to oneself personally. Maybe ad hominem is not exactly the right term here, but my point is that feminists will very often (as often as they can!) try to weave your personality or life situation into the talk in such a way as to skew or compromise the argument you are making -- or simply to duck the issue by re-framing or derailing.

Yes, all of the above describes a more insidious way of mixing the personal with the political, and is precisely how the feminists will operate, every chance they get. Of course, feminists are far from the only ones who operate this way -- low-minded philistine types, as a rule, do it all the time. What distinguishes the feminists, however, is that they tend to have a vague epistemological rationalization for such proceedings, either more or less articulated, lurking like a subtextual template in the backs of their minds. Consciously or otherwise, they seem to think it is "cricket" to play the game this way -- and that is largely due to an intellectual legacy which has "trickled down" to them from high-academic thought leaders and other seminal thinkers.

Damn! I am on a roll here.

All right. Let's talk about those bitch-bitchers again -- and I am not bitching about them, just discussing them. My contention is, that just about ALL woman-centric discourse leaves you open to the style of personal-political manipulation I am describing. And when I say "woman-centric", I mean nearly any talk that makes women a central object of male concern in any way. Even if you think you are speaking from a male-centric perspective, the talk as a whole is woman-centric.

Yes, once again, it brings the "personal" into conjunction with the "political", leaving you open to the style of manipulation we are describing.

The ideal, it seems to me, should be neither woman-centric nor man-centric, but . . policy-centric.

I will leave clarification for the next installment.

7:46 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@Lady Catherine:

I thank you for your clarification of the meaning of "nitpick". :)

And I would tend to concur that there is a nit's worth of difference between communism and socialism. Species of the same genus; points on the same spectrum. Apples and oranges comparison if you insist -- which, 'pon my word, is quite a ways up the road from an apples and baseballs comparison.

All right, feminism is "closer" to communism, if you insist! ;)

8:16 PM  
Anonymous AlekNovy said...

""Actually, it's getting women to perform like trained seals.""

Actually its getting asocial geeks to perform like trained little customers.

I'm sad to say that I actually made money selling "game" in the past. That means that for 5-8 years I was involved with all the top "game" gurus, traveled around, made business deals, workshops, this and that. I've been involved with every facet of "game" you can imagine, and whether you wanna listen or not, is up to you, but "game" is nothing but a way of making money by selling dreams to sexually starved guys... That's it.

Truth is, out of the 70,000 types and schools of game, they all differ radically. One says you MUST do xyz, the other says you must NEVER do xyz... So how can they all be right? How can game be "do xyz" and "do abc" and the other thousands of radically different versions?

Truth is, it can't. I've observed, mastered, worked with every type of "game" out there, and the truth is, guess what? They're all just elaborate systems of mind-fu*ing yourself into believing you have some power over women you interact with.

Truth? Everyone gets the same results. Take any guy from any school of game, send them out in a club/street/whatever give them 5 hours and they will all come back to you with the SAME number of dates or phone numbers. Truth is... Game is nothing but YOU gaming yourself into believing you have "control" over women. Truth is, women have all the control, they just let you think you're doing something. Truth is she chose you before you said a word, and whatever you said, you'd get the one you got, and wouldn't get the one you didn't get.

I'm sorry to break reality to you... You can fight it and read salesletters (some I might have even written) telling you how you can say THE RIGHT words TO mind-CONTROL women's ATTRACTION switches and to MAKE HER yours...

This is the true reason why "gamers" have no place in MRA. For someone to be so emotionally underdeveloped to even buy into game crap, means they're not even a man yet, but a boy. The first letter of MRA stands for MEN, not boys... And I'm sorry, but men don't "game".

2:01 AM  
Anonymous AlekNovy said...

""I don't know exactly what part of eastern Europe you are in, but historical memory of such things is still fresh""

Ya, I'm surrounded by commies, lol. Actually, right-wingers here would be liberal by american standards... Its reaaaaaleeeeeh bad.

I even remember a little of socialism, and I was actually on vacation in Athens during the hippie protests recently, the whole freaking city was plastered with freaking communist posters, like all over the place... Like trotsky, stalin, whatever. I couldn't believe it. I felt like I was in a freaking 1934 documentary or something... Its coming back here... Tons of communism getting resurrected in europe.

2:06 AM  
Anonymous Snark said...

"Socialism is an economic system that is designed to place people on equal footing. Communism on the other hand is a political and economic system designed to prevent the bourgeosie from oppressing the proletariat."

Any socialist or communist will tell you that the way you have used them here, the terms are synonymous. Placing people 'on equal footing' (an inherently totalitarian endeavour if followed to its logical conclusion) is the same thing in socialist-communist thought as liberating the proletariat from bourgeois oppression.

Or, are you saying that communism does not seek to place people on an equal footing? To me, this seems the theoretical and practical core of communism. Or are you saying that socialists do not care about the relationship between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie?

'Socialism' and 'communism' are basically interchangeable here, today - these terms do not have objectively fixed meanings however, and in different times and places their meanings have diverged.

2:22 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"Its coming back here... Tons of communism getting resurrected in europe."

Ahh. . so THAT is why they tore down the iron curtain. To let the commies out of their cage!!

2:45 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@AlekNovy:

Oh, and I suppose you are aware of the IGAF meeting in Zurich, and all of the. . . commies who took to the streets about that?

2:49 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@AlekNovy (again):

I just discovered you "game" comment in the blogger spam bucket. Must have been all those evil keywords that triggered the filters. ;)

2:59 AM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

@Snark
Consider it this way:
You have two cows, your neighbor has none.
Socialism: You give one cow to your neighbor and that's it.
Communism: You give both cows to the government and they dispense milk as they see fit.

Most governments have some form of socialist programs which are designed to help the poor. If you support Medicaid or Social Security you support some aspects of socialism.

3:08 AM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

Hmmm.

At the BAW site...

it looks like "Sam" and "John" have just entered the race.

I have NEVER met a man named "Sam" in my entire life.

I have seen some on TV - but never in real life.

interesting

8:51 AM  
Anonymous Snark said...

Lady Catherine, you seem to be equating communism with statism. I.e. to you, communism is just statist socialism.

And yet there have been writers who identify as anti-statist communists, and statist socialists. How does that fit into your cow analogy?

(I was hoping for more cogent analysis than cows, tbh.)

I'm sorry but your dichotomy is overly simplistic and ahistorical. If it helps you to break things down in this way then fine, but these are not the objective definitions of the terms (there aren't any) or even their popular definitions. I have nothing more to say on this matter.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

"I have NEVER met a man named "Sam" in my entire life."
Ummm...Samuel and Samson, perhaps? ;-)

10:57 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@LadyCatherine:

Consider: somebody is MAKING you give that cow away, or pitch in to the Medicaid kitty, etc etc. So in the end, it comes to the same thing. The "somebody" in question is none other than our old buddy, The State.

The only kind of "communism" that I would support, is the primitive kind which operates on a small scale, e.g. I decide to GIVE the cow to my neighbor out of the goodness of my heart.

Scaling that up a bit: private charities of whatever sort.

And how about pulling children out of the public school system where they might (in theory) be indoctrinated by drones of The State, and leave the "indoctrination" up to mom-n-pop who would do the job on more of an "act locally" basis?

Oh, and taxation of any kind may be considered a rudimentary form of socialism. (All right, communism if you will.)

I could go on with this. . .

All in all, leaving altruism in the hands of ideologues or bureaucrats who can enforce in with the backing of State Violence, is one hell of an ironic idea.

10:58 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"I have NEVER met a man named "Sam" in my entire life."

What, never a Sam? Ever?

Just off the top, I can think of two.

11:02 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

". . these are not the objective definitions of the terms (there aren't any) or even their popular definitions."

Hmmm. Reminds me of another "ism" that we are all too familiar with!;)

11:11 AM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

@Snark and Fidelbogen
*enters lecture mode*
Socialism and communism are ideological doctrines that have many similarities as well as many differences. It is difficult to discern the true differences between socialism and communism, as various societies have tried different types of both systems in myriad forms, and many ideologues with different agendas have defined both systems in biased terms. Some main differences, however, can still be identified.

One difference between socialism and communism is that socialism is mainly an economic system, while communism is both an economic and a political system. As an economic system, socialism seeks to manage the economy through deliberate and collective social control. Communism, however, seeks to manage both the economy and the society by ensuring that property is owned collectively and that control over the distribution of property is centralized in order to achieve both classlessness and statelessness. Both socialism and communism are similar in that they seek to prevent the ill effects that are sometimes produced by capitalism.

Both socialism and communism are based on the principle that the goods and services produced in an economy should be owned publicly and controlled and planned by a centralized organization. However, socialism asserts that the distribution should take place according to the amount of individuals' production efforts, while communism asserts that that goods and services should be distributed among the populace according to individuals' needs.

Another difference between socialism and communism is that communists assert that both capitalism and private ownership of means of production must be done away with as soon as possible in order to make sure a classless society, the communist ideal, is formed. Socialists, however, see capitalism as a possible part of the ideal state and believe that socialism can exist in a capitalist society. In fact, one of the ideas of socialism is that everyone within the society will benefit from capitalism as much as possible as long as the capitalism is controlled somehow by a centralized planning system.

Finally, another difference between socialism and communism is centered on who controls the structure of economy. Where socialism generally aims to have as many people as possible influence how the economy works, communism seeks to concentrate that number into a smaller amount.

*ending lecture mode*
Does that work?

11:14 AM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

PS. I also apologize for my bad over simplistic analogy. Doing something like that when you first wake up is never any good.

11:24 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@LadyCatherine:

Actually, your simplistic analogy worked rather well for my purposes.

Anyhow: socialism = communism lite.

"One difference between socialism and communism is that socialism is mainly an economic system, while communism is both an economic and a political system."

In practice, the economic and the political are so deeply intertwined and siamese-twinned with each other that this becomes. . a nugatory distinction.

"Where socialism generally aims to have as many people as possible influence how the economy works, communism seeks to concentrate that number into a smaller amount."

So. . communism in the end sounds a lot like capitalism, which also tends to concentrate economic control. Two different roads to Rome, with different scenery and different slogans posted along the way. Socialism would be a third road because it concentrates redistributionary power in the hands of those centralized planning bureaucrats -- who get to control capitalism. Ahh. . nice work if you can get it!

The socialist road makes a junction with the communist road the minute there is a regime change and a cadre of commies get into office.

"Socialists, however, see capitalism as a possible part of the ideal state and believe that socialism can exist in a capitalist society. In fact, one of the ideas of socialism is that everyone within the society will benefit from capitalism as much as possible as long as the capitalism is controlled somehow by a centralized planning system."

Very much like Fascism a la Mussolini. Which beats hell outta Bolshevism a la Uncle Joe, I reckon! ;)

But anyhow, thank you for clarifying the formal, theoretical distinction between Communism and Socialism. You have expressed this very succinctly and clearly, and I found it helpful. :)

12:16 PM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

The big thing here to remember, as Snark points out, there are differeing forms of socialism and communism: Marxist-Leninism*, Trotskism, Stalinism, Left/Council socialism, social democracy, regional socialism, religious socialism, and eco-socialism.(You can reserarch them if you wish, the differences aren't *that* different for the most part[just different methods for the same ends])

*Whn I identified as a communist, my ideology was similar to Lenin's and I had a strong dislike of Stalin's methods.

12:43 PM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

@Lady Catherine:

Yes, I know what SAM is short for.

Never met any man named SAM or SAMUEL etc...

All the names on that blog seem way too typical.
Bob, Sam, Frank, John, Doug, Mark, James.

Whoever wrote it could have picked better names like:

John Wood
Peter Wood
John Harding
Peter Harding
Rod Wood
Rod Harding

oh, and of course:

Hue G. Wrekshun

1:01 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@ScareCrow:

Add this one to the list:

Woody Dickens

;)

1:11 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

[Continued from previous installment]

To recap briefly: making women the *center* of your political discourse is not a good move, because it will leave you open to (earlier described) personal-political manipulations by the feminists.

This principle applies both individually (the microcosm) and collectively (the macrocosm).

My conclusion is, that the pro-male men's movement (new name there!) should maintain a collective rhetorical profile which is governed by certain disciplines.

Collective Rhetorical Profile = the central and controlling message which the world at large mainly hears from our camp, and which brands us.

So, I think that AlexNovy would agree with me that we don't need a bunch of putative "MRAs" blathering about PUA pickup theory in the middle of our carefully crafted, structured discourse. Nor do we need general purpose bitch-bitchers hammering on the theme of "relationships" or women in general. And why? Because a mind dominated by women in any way is not a politically effective mind. And also, because for political reasons we don't need the branding that we'll get from all of that. It will drag us down to a level of conversation that we shouldn't be engaged in. Yes, it is like quicksand!

Okay, I confess that I am an elitist in this way. For political reasons, I don't feel like I need to be entirely "human" in my political personna.

Now THAT. . is separating the personal from the poltical!

[Continued in next installment]

3:31 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

A note: I must prepare my next blog post, which will be posted on New Year's Day. A trumpet heralding the dawn of a new era. Yes, Mr. Kostakis holds all in readiness; it will be an exciting moment. .

3:39 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

Hey ScareCrow: here's another funny name to add to that list:

Peter Longwood

5:21 PM  
Anonymous silentblood said...

@Scarecrow and Fidelbogen
O.o What the...?

The threads I walk into, communism, innuendo, and poor analogies made by my wife. What's next: Someone telling me that Ragnarok has begun?

Seriously though, can't wait to read the next post comerade...I mean Fidelbogen. ;-)

7:29 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@Silentblood:

"What's next: Someone telling me that Ragnarok has begun?"

No, but I think Ragnorak has begun. . maybe? ;)

8:39 PM  
Blogger ScareCrow said...

Here's a good blog:

http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/

10:31 AM  
Anonymous silentblood said...

@Fidelbogen
I see what you did there! :-)

1:47 PM  
Anonymous Lady Catherine said...

Fidelbogen, do you have a post or two regarding ifeminism, because, I just had one of the *weirdest* conversations ever. The gist of the conversation was about feminism and my positioning on gender issues. Apparently, I'm an ifeminist(according to the woman I talked to). I'll admit that I like ifeminism's pro-male attitude and I even find myself agreeing with most of their positions regarding gender rights(as far as I can tell from their site) but the feminist part leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :-s

2:12 PM  
Anonymous Snark said...

A thought I had which could be useful in SCRAMBLING THEIR BRAINS:

There isn't only one kind of patriarchy. Patriarchy isn't a monolithic entity. There are lots of different types of patriarchs who have different views. I can't be held responsible for everything patriarchs do, although I am a patriarch (and proud of it).

3:04 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@Snark:

That idea; I like it.

It is sort of like putting icy patches on their road that will either make them skate out of control, or force them to drive very, very slowly! ;)


@LadyCatherina:

As best I can gather, an iFeminist is just an old school liberal (or libertarian) feminist who doesn't talk about patriarchy and such.

I never felt inspired to write (or think) about them, so I have no posts on the subject.

10:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@LadyCatherina

If an ifeminist believes in gender equality, then ifeminism is our enemy.

No exceptions.

7:26 AM  
Anonymous silentblood said...

@Anon
You do realize that ifeminists has made great strides in addressing men's rights issues and that many ifeminists would describe themselves as MRAs as well? They seek to discredit "gender" feminists and fight for *real* equality. There's plenty of things I disagree with ifeminists about, but I would never call them enemies, especially since I don't think all gender issues are that black and white.

7:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Here's a hint for these guys. If you still feel anger/emotional reactiveness when reading feminazi crap... You've been had. If you can't read one of those pieces and rationally and intellectually dismantle it without feeling hurt or like they're beating you up personally... then you've been had"
AlekNovy

Thats a good objective cool insightful analysis tht shows someone who sees through the charade and sham
I have been up against feminism for decades now
I work in further education. It is infested with feminst lies and policy
I might as well be unemployed and with the increasing bolshevist style bureaucracy I may well be.
What I could not understand is how such blatant liars and frauds have
suceeded in getting into postions of power and influence.
What I now realise is that very wealthy individauls corporations
give massive financial support to
education establishments and they sponosr feminism Why
does the Rockefeller Foundation and others like it support feminism?Research it dont take my word for it.
...Alienating and undermining men who might be even one day competition for their great wealth and power.
The enemies of men are wealthy elitists the puupet masters of the sycophantic scum aka politicians.
..follow the money. Bankers are cunning manipulators, too I discovered that in Europe The Deustch Bank sponsors a "charity"group called "Common Purpose"training leaders of the future - wedded to a network of corporate lackeys.SEE:
http://www.cpexposed.com/
whose head is a typical lefty feminist type with a curiously upper class sounding voice.
AlekNovy is 100% correct.
The game is up feminism is a CON -so are the left the right and the liberal. Morally Bankrupt.
You Fidelbogen my friend are a voice of truth and reason. THE FUTURE IS YOURS. You write with truth and integrity.. The evil empire will fall -they are getting vicious
and may get more so but fall they will....

3:24 AM  
Anonymous CCL said...

Very interesting, i'm more and more happy i chose to stay.

ifeminist is pretty much how i'd see myself. Minus the name which i would loathe to adopt, for the reason that means associating myself with a hate group, since even liberals and ifeminists have reverence for their 'history' and would never renounce the 'heroes' like Mary Daly. Thus they deliberately and knowingly choose to be part of a hate group and my enemy. In this case the name matters.

Which reminds me of the story of Donna Haraway and the feminist techno-progressives (my former angle/philosophy) - who disagreed but were sidelined with no second thought, in favour of maintaining the direct link to the hate dogma and on occasions (H's best student) even got rid of personally.

I am more and more impressed with you, folks - and the intellectual discipline idea. I fully believe that non-feminist social thinkers should not degrade into hate rhetorics and keep it rational. For the reasons of PR and branding if not one's own heart.

5:25 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"If you can't read one of those pieces and rationally and intellectually dismantle it without feeling hurt or like they're beating you up personally... then you've been had"

I DO feel like they are beating up on me personally, because frankly . . they ARE. Yes, I DO take the activities of feminazis personally!

However, I agree that one should read and observe them while remaining emotionally cool and detached. That, for our sector, shall be the key to victory.

11:08 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"I am more and more impressed with you, folks - and the intellectual discipline idea. I fully believe that non-feminist social thinkers should not degrade into hate rhetorics and keep it rational. For the reasons of PR and branding if not one's own heart."

Hate speech is for greenhorns.

Ice is better than fire.

Never use a broadsword when you ought to use a stiletto.

(Although broadswords have their place.)

11:15 AM  

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