Friday, March 25, 2011

Another Trans-Atlantic Window Moment

I haven't written for a while. So, I will break the silence with a bit of recent correspondence which hints at the quickening developments among our overseas brethren of the Männerbewegung. Sorry, when I say "overseas", I am being USA-centric. About one-third of this blog's readers are themselves "overseas"; therefore the following is not really "overseas" for them:
"Hello Fidelbogen

". . . How are things going in the US? . . . you mentioned developments within the English-speaking MRA being different than here in Europe. I also stumbled across a feminist infested place called "Good Men Project" - are they responsible for any bad developments? Are they undermining your progress in convincing males and fighting feminism? They seem to throw a lot of bullshit in your direction.

"We were quite busy here in the German speaking parts of Europe. We challenged state feminism in Switzerland by threatening to publish the addresses of women's shelters and demanded that they get closed and replaced by shelters for both sexes without ideology - we primarily wanted to start a debate about these corrupted institutions. We also announced that several of our people plan to participate in the upcoming national elections in the fall of this year. These events caused quite a media stir.

"German Feminists produced a 70 pages thick report of antifeminist arguments and how feminists should denounce them - we are currently working on a counter-project debunking their points. We also had quite some unrest within the movement concerning the definition of masculism and whether women should have equal rights and responsibilities within a masculist world view or not. Although many of us don't have a problem with this some dream of setting up a real "patriarchy". Many of us acknowledge that there are inherent biological differences between men and women - the state should not interfere with this by applying gender ideology. But these natural differences are in my opinion no obstacle in the way of giving men and women equal rights and responsibilities within society.

"What role does masculism play in your area of activism? What do your people think about masculism? And how do they define it?

"I heard of a "Masculist Manifesto" ("patriarchy"-focused ...) and of Warren Farrell who seems to be making good points but also appears to sympathize with genderism and gender state policies in general - things which many masculists here do not appreciate. What is your opinion on these different proponents of masculism?

"We also had quite some debate about homosexual men whether they should participate in the movement or not and whether their interests should be advocated or not. Most of us don't mind gays being part of the MRA although I think we should not split our efforts by also concerning us with gays' interests.

"I still owe you and your readers a detailed report on the situation of the MRA here in "Germantown" of Europe - I will try to do it as soon as possible, I promise. It is just that so much is currently going on ... so many new developments and events which I would not have believed possible just one or two years ago."


Blogger Lady Catherine said...

I want to give my 2 cents on some topics raised up in this post.

1. I'm for gender liberation, I believe that strict gender roles are oppressive and a disservice for people like my husband.

2. I don't think the MRM should be a twisted reflection of feminism.

3. I don't think the MRM should especially concern itself with LGBT issues, even though there are LGBT MRAs(my husband and I for example, he's bi and I'm pan)

5:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's pan(sexual?)?

Anyway I'm pretty much in agreement, Lady Catherine.

Here's a question for you Fidelbogen: Do you think the MRM here in the States should throw their support behind a particular party? Like the Libertarian party for example or the Republican party?

9:20 PM  
Blogger Lady Catherine said...

I'm pansexual which means that I am attracted to people in general, sex, gender and sexual orientation are just fleeting things for me.

9:10 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"Here's a question for you Fidelbogen: Do you think the MRM here in the States should throw their support behind a particular party? Like the Libertarian party for example or the Republican party?"

You graciously solicit my opinion...

Well. If one of the parties nailed a men's plank into their platform, and included men's issues in their political discourse, then I would recommend supporting that party -- even if I didn't care for their politics overall.

But until they come out openly in support of men, no support for them.

As much as I despise both the Republicans and the Democrats, I do believe that the Republics are more likely to come 'round, than the Democrats. So if they did, then I would support them.

At that point, ipso facto, the male vote will have become a "force" on the political map. So, if the Republicans could swing the male vote, it wouldn't be long before the Democrats (if they were politically wise) would nail a men's plank into THEIR platform, in order to capture some of that power.

A complicated domino effect might then follow, seeing how the Democrats are the stronghold of the feminists and the Left in general. A tricky chemistry would be unleashed, if the democrats were to start factoring pro-male politics into their political discourse.

The whole political alignment of forces in this country could be subjected to a dramatic 'perestroika' when-if an activated male voting bloc came into existence.

The libertarians aren't much of a force in electoral politics at this time, and I almost want to say that men would not gain any traction with them, BUT. . . a noticeable male rallying around the libertarians might make at least the mainstream Republican org scent opportunity.

7:02 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

". . don't think the MRM should be a twisted reflection of feminism."

The non-feminist revolution includes such a variety of people and forces that it will never reflect anything but the universe exclusive of feminism.

So, the counter-feminist question becomes: how to herd cats.

Apart from that, I think it is an excellent idea to throw feminism's tricks right back at feminism. .

7:42 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

"I'm for gender liberation, I believe that strict gender roles are oppressive and a disservice for people like my husband."

Can you explain the meaning of the phrase "gender liberation", and the phrase "strict gender roles"?

8:23 PM  
Blogger Lady Catherine said...


Gender liberation is the concept that gender role is oppressive nd that hurts more people than it helps people. As a humanistic psychologist that desires to help people, I believe that an acceptance of people who's gender deviates from the norm. As my husband has mentioned he is a gender queer, and his parents were incredibly strict about what a real man is supposed to be like. This is psychologically unhealthy for most people and leads to a Pavlovian psychodynamic that forces people to ignore a very real part of them. I do not believe people are solely masculine or feminine by default and some of the things society does to force boys and girls into gender roles are disgusting.

Therefore, in my opinion I believe that people should be able to define themselves as they wish.

6:46 AM  
Blogger AlekNovy said...


There's a disproportionate amount of libertarians in the Men's Movement.

At the same time, virtually 90% of pro-male-women are libertarians (anyone notice that)? About 90% of strongly counter-feminist-women are libertarians.

I'm of course talking about women who proactively talk about and discuss these issues online and public-ally.

In real life, most of the counter-feminist women are conservatives, but they don't go public with it.

8:55 PM  

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