Another Quick Thought
I will step onto some thin ice here, in taking a small risk that I'll sound like a "wimp" or something of that kind.
All right. I believe it is important to engage feminists in a non-abrasive way, and to genuinely LISTEN to them. That may be impossible to do with the radical haters, but with the mainstream foot-soldiers it is quite easy. When they start spouting off their ill-formed opinions about "MRAs" and whatnot, you should switch into Disengage Mode, and engage them in that mode.
Suspend your personal feelings about what they are saying. And forget about debating or explaining. Just take a hint from Socrates, and commence to asking them questions in order to draw them into clarificatory statements. They might actually say something inculpatory -- you never know -- but that is not what you seek. What you seek, rather, is to know their actual thinking, with all possible precision, from their 0wn subjective vantage point.
To put that more cleverly, you should go about to gain objective information about their subjectivity.
In such manner, by repeated experiment, we chart the psychic topography of the enemy. Yes, good maps are vitally important for successful campaigns. There is no substitute for a correct definition of the situation in all of its its dimensions.
Learning the mind of the enemy in this manner will give you a great power boost in the practice of rhetorical discipline, teaching you precisely how NOT to fall afoul of their prejudices. This will help you to craft your message to the best possible effect, so that you cut off all their avenues of escape from the realization of what you are saying, thus driving them into a corner in their own minds and bottling them up in a way that neutralizes their effectuality.
Therefore, be a good listener! After all, the feminists love to remind us that "men don't listen", so I say it is time to lay that stereotype to rest.
All right. I believe it is important to engage feminists in a non-abrasive way, and to genuinely LISTEN to them. That may be impossible to do with the radical haters, but with the mainstream foot-soldiers it is quite easy. When they start spouting off their ill-formed opinions about "MRAs" and whatnot, you should switch into Disengage Mode, and engage them in that mode.
Suspend your personal feelings about what they are saying. And forget about debating or explaining. Just take a hint from Socrates, and commence to asking them questions in order to draw them into clarificatory statements. They might actually say something inculpatory -- you never know -- but that is not what you seek. What you seek, rather, is to know their actual thinking, with all possible precision, from their 0wn subjective vantage point.
To put that more cleverly, you should go about to gain objective information about their subjectivity.
In such manner, by repeated experiment, we chart the psychic topography of the enemy. Yes, good maps are vitally important for successful campaigns. There is no substitute for a correct definition of the situation in all of its its dimensions.
Learning the mind of the enemy in this manner will give you a great power boost in the practice of rhetorical discipline, teaching you precisely how NOT to fall afoul of their prejudices. This will help you to craft your message to the best possible effect, so that you cut off all their avenues of escape from the realization of what you are saying, thus driving them into a corner in their own minds and bottling them up in a way that neutralizes their effectuality.
Therefore, be a good listener! After all, the feminists love to remind us that "men don't listen", so I say it is time to lay that stereotype to rest.
posted by Fidelbogen at 10:52 PM
7 Comments:
Its a good idea Fidelbogen
it is good to gain more understanding.This we know about feminists
Subjective in the extreme. They rarely back arguments with proof or facts. When they do use "proof" its concocted, skewed surveys or stats they are proven to be false or distorted.
They make a god out of their opinions, challenge or contradict their ideas and the response is childish name calling..
Arguing logically is impossible with them. I generally dont waste energy on them. I know feminist women and work with them and I never ever express my views it would serve no use.
They have chararcteristics that
are begging parody they are utterly predictable have no imagination are humourless and boring. they would be great subject for cartooning and lampooning. I am amazed there is not more of this. Well the MSM would censor any thing that even mildly pokes fun at thme.But who needs the MSM...I would love to see the many talented men out there to make comedy about them....
feminists are sitting ducks for comedy satire and farce.
Have a look at a feminist "apologist" link below
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/faq-myths-lesbian-man-haters/
This is classic thinly -veiled feminist language quoted below from site linked above defending against the charge feminists are man hating lesbians:
"Of course, the “threat” to men inherent in both lesbian and feminist thought is that women need not, and should not, position men as the center of their lives"
The loaded phrase "threat" to men. Men who as we know by now with vast swathes of feminist
speak, feminist lit, the media,theleft leaning and even the right leaning press that the undermining of us has been well organised. It is universal.We have been assaulted at every level,as we kniow all too well.The agenda is: break up the family waht else could it be. Who benefits freom family break down?
"The Woman-Identified Woman‘s] authors claimed that lesbians and lesbianism are of central, rather than peripheral, importance to the feminist movement. The woman-identified woman, they contended, undermines patriarchy by withdrawing her energy from men, by affirming a connection with other women, and by validating women on their own terms, independent of men. So long as women seek the approval of men and male institutions, they argued, they cannot become autonomous human beings."
She quotes feminist/lesbian thought which reveals that feminism is essentially a Lesbian Cult
thats mostly all it ever was Its dykes playing politics. They always play dirty, lie obfuscate and
are ruthless, merciless in pursuing the "patriarchy "which must be smashed.
Patriarchy is fatherhood Look at how fathers are treated by law now. patriarchy is Man hood or manly identity in any shape or form. It is the constant threat - to lesbians and a perpetual threat which is why they barely conceal their hostility to men. Men are a clear sexual threat. Sex with women is mostly what is in the mind of feminists. Hatred of men goes in tandem. Not all lesbains are man hating like this, but I ask you guys How many do you know? Very few I will guess. The feminist:
"Cite please?By which I mean, please link to these man-hating blogs that you have found, I would be genuinely interested to read them."
"I would also suggest that if it is just a case of views that ‘can be construed’ as misandric, the man-hating may be constructed (however innocently) by the person doing the construing, rather than the author herself. If you are unclear, perhaps you could comment and ask the author for clarification? Alternatively, you could link me here and get the opinions of others on what you have read as well as your own."
...Sounds reasonable enough does'nt it. This is familair tactic to me as in the 80s as I first encountered the man hating feminist brigade mostly dykes and they did hate men and did not hide it. It was airbrushed out by ; "feel threatned" by women progress etc. etc.
What feminists say and do is different as well . They will say "we are for equality "and practice the opposite. We dont hate men but their activism has lead to mass injustice now decades long.
The subtle suggestion above is: You imagined it. You dont really understand what the high minded Intellectual feminist means. You have misconstrued. The do a double speak they deny hate speech.
Some feminist dont use hate speech .Most do. So what? The core message of feminism is EVIL.
Lesbianism defines feminism AngryHarry himself got death threarts when he humourously said lesbians were SEXUALLY jealous of MEN!Why would this strike such a nerve?
It is wearing thin for them now they look more outmoded than old Marx himself, they still cant quite grasp the rising tide the changing tide,soon to be an earthquake and Tsunami which will sweep them away...
Give it a few more years Men -Brothers- and they will with dismay be reaping more than ever what they sowed....
Any other exposure of feminist langiuage and tactics anyone??
@anon 3:08AM - I agree 100%.
Yes, this seems to be an extension of rhetorical discipline.
Allowing your enemy to yield grappling points, while providing none yourself.
Excellent post! I have learned this one well in a short period of time.
Yep! With you 100% on this one Fidelbogen. It will not work with the rabids but the common or garden "I'm a feminist but don't really know why" still has a chance to be pulled out of the cult if you listen and stear them into thinking mode. I have seen it happen. A sudden moment of realisation as a light bulb goes on in their heads.
No one is beyond reach if they can think, look at Warren Farrel!
OT; Action alert!
Dr. Phil will be at tomorrow's VAWA hearing... What about you?
Submitted by Matt on Tue, 2011-07-12 22:58.
From SAVE via email:
Cue lights and cascading drum roll...SAVE has now released the Partner Violence Reduction Act (PVRA): http://www.saveservices.org/pvra
After years of discussion and debate, it's now a reality...the Partner Violence Reduction Act will amend the Violence Against Women Act so all victims are served, false accusations stop, and the discrimination comes to an end.
And as luck would have it, the Senate Judiciary Committee is holding a hearing tomorrow, Wednesday, July 13, beginning at 10am Eastern time, about the Violence Against Women Act.
One of the featured witnesses will be -- you guessed it -- Dr. Phil of Oprah Winfrey fame! You can watch the live Webcast here:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=3d9031b47812de2592c3baeba61af68b.
http://news.mensactivism.org/node/16911
http://news.mensactivism.org/
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