Wednesday, November 21, 2012

More About Evo-Psych and Waveband Separation

I recently got the following communique from a person I will call Roy Jones:
"Greetings,Fidelbogen. I'm a big fan of yours, and I watch all your videos. I completely agree with your philosophical views about feminism. There are a lot of concepts you brought up that I was actually aware of for many years but you were the first to speak out what I was thinking. You also brought up some very true points that I never would have thought about such as your video about "female colonization of male space"... I think more individuals like you are crucial to the movement. Unlike Barbarossa and Stardusk, you attack the actual root of the problem which is feminism and not women in general... Women are actually the victims of early indoctrination. Whether the concept of Briffault's Law they mention is true or not is one thing, but the question we need to ask is, "is it helping our cause? or is it fuelling the enemy as evidence to claim we're a hate movement?"
 And I responded to this in the following terms:
Yes...that is why I like to be agnostic about Briffault's Law, etc. That way, I leave the possibilities open without committing myself to an idea that I don't need in order to accomplish what I seek.
A day later, Roy Jones sent me another message:
"All I'm saying is.. throwing theories around without evidence to confirm its validity seems like something feminists would do. I mean when you break down the aspects of Briffault's law, if you think about it, it is within human nature to want to be with a mate and have an ulterior motive for staying with them. Barbarossa and Stardusk try to state for example, that a male having a good sense of humor or the ability to empathize with a women's personal problem is a way for a women to use men, and that once men lose those abilities, women would leave them behind and search for another mate.  I mean come on, who can prove if it's true... for all we know, a women could be under the impression that a guy she is in a relationship with for many years doesn't care anymore to interact with her the same as he used to... The point of what I'm saying is... if Briffault's Law is true, then to an extent, it could apply to any of us. Here is a nice little scenario to think about:  If 2 individuals are standing in front of you, one is a male and one is a female.. the female states she is a lesbian and has opposite sex genitals (androgens received during prenatal stages & gonadotropic hormones which changes brain development to act more like a man).. Let us say the male's condition is the opposite equivalent of the female.  Now for the big question: who is more susceptible to being categorized under Briffault's Law? Still can't be proven, even if Briffault's law can be pointed down at a specific hormone, like estrogen. The average male typically has estrogen within his body, even if it is at low doses.  And that concludes just about all I had to say. Feel free to give me some feedback, criticism, etc. Or if not, that is fine too.. thanks."
 After reflecting upon the foregoing, I composed a reply and got a little bit carried away. So it was lengthy, but I share it for what it is worth, as follows:
 Thank you. You have summarized some of my reasons for leaving Briffault's Law etc, out of my public rhetoric. Not only do I want to focus on other things for political/strategic reasons, but I do in fact have my doubts. Many of the theorizations which people toss around under the banner of "evolutionary psychology" fall into the category of "non-falsifiable assertion". Which means that a lot (maybe not all) of the talk which happens under that banner is apt to be rubbish.

For the record, i DO believe that there are inherent bio-psychic differences between men and women, despite individual deviations from the norm. However, that does not mean that every spin-off hypothesis or stray statement derived from this has enough truth value to make it a "keeper".  Separation of wheat from chaff is clearly the order of the day here, and that is a task I would leave to others who find this realm of enquiry more compelling. I don't need to separate the wheat from the chaff because I am not using the grain from that particular granary in the first place.

For myself, the task at hand is simple. It is to WIN THE WAR. That is the lens through which I view all of this, and that is the imperative which guides and governs me. The way I see it, when group A declares war on group B, then group A has opened a can of trouble for itself. Well, group A is feminism, and group B is firstly men, and secondarily everybody who is not feminist. That is to say, men are the ground zero target, but the fallout spreads. But for now, I focus on ground zero.

As men, we have been bushwhacked, and decked. They made a sneak attack on all cultural and political fronts, and we had no idea what they were up to. And so they have culturally and politically pinned us on our backs and are using their fists -- flailing at will. And we cannot swing our dukes into effective operation; if we try, the screams of "misogyny" and "male violence" will assault and batter us. As I say, they have decked us. And I think it is accurate to call this state of affairs a "war".

So is there a way to overturn this order of things? I believe there is, but it requires a lot of craft, finesse, and a coordination of action by cool heads. The good news is, that we do have such cool heads, and such coordination, and that the necessary slow, patient action is under way. One could wish that the glacial pace would quicken, but for now things are the way they are.

All right. Touching once more upon the starting point of this discussion, I do not talk about Briffault's Law, hypergamy, evolutionary psychology, the mercenary nature of women and so on, because in my considered opinion it would fail a strategic cost-benefit analysis to do so. I feel that my own goal -- TO WIN THE WAR -- can be attained by other means. And I do not mean to discard my own methods of operation. Not only do I deem these methods politically efficient, but I believe it would damage the cause in a material way if one were to give them up.

Additionally, as I have stated elsewhere, I am agnostic about hypergamy, Briffault's Law and all of that. And I don't just say this -- I genuinely am agnostic upon these matters. That is, my outlook truly is halfway between belief and disbelief. So that means I have bracketed the entire subject pending futher information.  Meantime, I am not holding my breath. I can go ahead with plans even if I NEVER get further information. I don't feel I need to think about evolutionary psychology, or anything pertaining to it, in order to WIN THE WAR.

In the spirit of science and free enquiry, I leave certain conversations open to those who would pursue such matters. But in the spirit of strategic pragmatism, I distance myself from said discussions, both because my own project does not require them, and because I seek the philosophical advantage such distance confers. 

So the question becomes, how to maintain distance. The non-feminist sector is becoming more and more activated -- meaning that more and people are becoming politicized against feminism. And along with such growth comes disagreement, and the proliferation of factions and cohorts. AND THERE IS NO HELP FOR THIS. It is bound to happen, for the way of the world is that humans in large numbers will form separate tribes.

Some have lamented that "the movement" is dead or dying. But I would say that "the movement" was never entirely real in the first place, so there is no entity that could properly be said to undergo "death". In fact, all that we are looking at is a series of shifting patterns and energy transformations. And so when one pattern morphs into another, people raise a cry that "the movement" is dead. Bosh! It is not dead; it is very much alive and kicking, but has moved along to a different stage of development and taken a different form.   Yes, that is what movements do -- they keep moving!

The fact that we are growing in number means that we are splitting up into different "schools". And in time, these schools will split up into more schools, and on it will go. This is not a disaster. It is evidence of vitality and a source of strength. It means we are developing specializations. It means we are becoming a complex social organism able to do complex things.

Again, the question is how to maintain distance. How might the different groups within the activated non-feminist sector establish signal differentiation and message clarity? How might they spread out across the waveband and establish their own frequencies, and not JAM each other?

We are only at the beginning of all this, and more questions will arise. But the important thing is to ask the right ones -- when we do, it is like shaking the answer tree and watching the fruit fall.

But to any woman on planet Earth I say this: you have a clean slate. If I do not know you, I will suppose you are a rational adult with moral agency who can make a contract and stick to it.  And excepting you prove otherwise, I will continue to suppose this. I give you the benefit of my agnostic uncertainty, even as I mark your actions well and consult my best interest in all matters. In the end, what you write upon your clean slate is entirely up to you. Mark that well.


All right....I guess that wraps it up.

~F~

5 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Fidel, barb posted a response to your becoming ambient article, was interested in hearing your thoughts, here's the link.

http://barbarossaa-male-sovereignty.blogspot.com/2012/11/a-response-toward-fidelbogen-becoming.html

9:02 PM  
Anonymous Ulrox said...

Fidelbogen - I have been thinking very much in the same lines as Roy Jones, but I did not feel the need to write to you because I gleamed the same information that you sent to Roy from your older blog posts.

I personally feel like barbarossaaaa and stardusk make some pretty bold claims... Umm for instance their idea that we need to starve the system is pretty laughable to me, mainly because its just not going to happen... ever... Men are disposable because it is in our nature to be disposable :P ... We will seek out women and that is just how it is. 95% of men will not see it as an acceptable solution to just not seek out women because this is imperative to who we are as men...

And this is precisely why stuff like PUA's and such are so successful... Persuing women and being successful in doing so feels AWESOME to a man... And I'm saying this as a 25 year old virgin... I still know my nature enough to know that this is the case... We aren't going to starve the system - this is not how we are going to win the war, there needs to be better solutions to the issue than this!

Also this whole talk about women nature being mercenary and evil and such... I feel that in the end its going to harm the movement more than do it good... Its too radical in my honest opinion. I have no doubt that barbarossaaa and stardusk are well intentioned and I personally enjoy listening to their ramblings but I find that I disagree with it on principle. If all women are evil and incapable of going beyond their nature, then men should also be evil and incapable of going beyond our nature... It is akin to saying that men can stop rape because RAPE is in the male nature... Its the same kind of radicalness exept its on the other side of the spectrum - a man saying it instead of a woman.

So my advice to barbarossssaaa and stardusk would be to try and rise above their narrow points of view and see things from a different perspective, and put their minds to use in a different way that actually suggest solutions that will allow us to move forward, because I feel like this is not what they have been doing lately...

Martin

12:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We aren't going to starve the system - this is not how we are going to win the war, there needs to be better solutions to the issue than this!"

The only "better solution" is violent confrontation. Sound good to you? No,me neither. What else are we going to do? Lay down in front of the tanks like Ghandi would? You said it yourself, we're disposable.

"If all women are evil and incapable of going beyond their nature, then men should also be evil and incapable of going beyond our nature... It is akin to saying that men can stop rape because RAPE is in the male nature... "

You are either mentally a child, or you are a woman. This sounds like a female's writing to me.

I would explain where you made your mistake, but you wouldn't listen anyway,and fuck's sake, where do I begin? If you're a man you ought to be able to reason through it just fine.It's a pretty glaring fallacious assumption,I'll leave it at that.

"So my advice to barbarossssaaa and stardusk would be to try and rise above their narrow points of view and see things from a different perspective, and put their minds to use in a different way that actually suggest solutions that will allow us to move forward..."

You know, I'm not even a fan of barb's,any more than I am particularly a fan of any one manosphere writer or group of writers,and I don't even know who the hell stardusk IS,but who decided that their viewpoints were "too narrow"? You?

I'm not much older than you are. Were our educations so different that I am able to see the grand game afoot here, and you are not?

If you're a male,we grew up on the same books, the same movies,the same music,the same culture. What the hell were you doing while I was learning-huffing gasoline?

We need all of these points of view.

For god's sake, there are, right FUCKING now,a plurality of manosphere sites operated by our fucking ENEMIES.I know this by both inference and observable evidence. And guess what,fuckwit? We need them too (albeit for reasons you could never comprehend)! Even our enemies are serving the purpose.

You,on the other had,I'm not so sure about. You don't even know how to ask the right questions. For instance, you ask for "solutions",when what you WANT is a course of action.

If that's all you need,you don't need to go as far as troubling our philosophizers for it, I can give you one right now.

Assuming you're a man,here's what you do.Get about 4 or 5 of the biggest guys you can find and take them to the nearest college campus. Once there,locate the women's studies department. Find out when the next lecture on feminism is scheduled. Once you have obtained that, return at that time and block the doorway with the help of these men. Do not let anyone go in. Do not use violence or threats against anyone and videotape the whole encounter. Wait for the cops to arrive. If you are interviewed by local news, tell them you did it because there is no men's studies department, or because what was being said inside was hate speech. Or something along those lines. As long as it's plainly true, or can be seen as true with a 10 second explanation,you can tell them ANYTHING.

That is all.

With that act,you would have personally solved something. That something is a lack of visibility for the movement, and the tendency to conflate men's rights with misogyny or violence. By demonstrating you are neither, in terms the lowest common denominator can understand, you have taken away their ability to sweep us under the carpet or scare people away with the idea we're dangerous.

Then,you don't have to bitch about the shit someone else is doing,because you're more visible than they are. Barbarosa's got a lot of hits on youtube,but he's not on the 6 0 clock news,now is he?

3:52 AM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@Ulrox/Martin:

"Also this whole talk about women nature being mercenary and evil and such... I feel that in the end its going to harm the movement more than do it good... "

I don't rule out those darker possibilities about women, but at the same time, I don't buy into such theorizations. My position, as I hope I made clear, is agnostic.

Also. . .which "movement" are you referring to, exactly, in you statement?

1:04 PM  
Blogger Fidelbogen said...

@Anon104:

Starving the system IS the solution. It's all a question of which "system", and what substance you propose to starve it of.

"Violent confrontation" is ALSO the solution, with the proviso that said "violence" be parcelled out into micro-chunks and distributed clear across the landscape. Also, it needs to be mainly intellectual and spiritual violence.

1:16 PM  

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