In Quest of the Third Path
SMASH the Left-Right model of political discourse!
Steal from both sides equally, with no loyalty to either one of them.
"Left" and "Right" are equally screwed up, and equally responsible for creating feminism.
That's EQUALITY for ya! ;)
Gotta love it!
Steal from both sides equally, with no loyalty to either one of them.
"Left" and "Right" are equally screwed up, and equally responsible for creating feminism.
That's EQUALITY for ya! ;)
Gotta love it!
Labels: CF Memory Lane
posted by Fidelbogen at 8:14 PM
23 Comments:
I've said it before I'll say it again, politics is a grocery store, I pick which items I want I don't give a damn what anyone else says and I hate labels, people use it against you both ways, they label you to marginalize you, or they label you with their label, then proceed to use it to try to control you. All of this almost certainly identifies me as a leftist of course. Maybe even an antizentropenarian, fine I'm an antizentropenarian.
Sorry - but that is wrong.
The radical feminists from the 60's were all left-wing.
Speculating about how right-wing women felt years ago is jackassed.
And so far, that is the only argument I have heard against the right - i.e strawman "traditionalism".
Gotta love people who know so much about the thoughts of people 100's of years ago - when they were not even alive to interview any of them.
So far, the only half-way-decent argument against the right is that "George Bush created VAWA" - which is a falsehood - Joe Biden created it - George Bush renewed it.
And guess what - women make up the majority of voters - for any politician to refuse VAWA is political suicide.
Any way - that is what I - scarecrow - fucking racist hypocrite and defender of Zionism thinks...
Talk about a crowd of lunatics!!!
@Crow:
Feminism, as an organic outcome of the entire culture, is equally a product of the "left" and the "right". Gynocentrism, dude, gynocentrism.
You have a superlative talent for not understanding what is being talked about.
And yes, the radical feminists of the 1960s were leftists...and so are ones today. Nobody ever said that they were not.
What's with you, anyway? Do you simply not pay attention, or are you invested in the left-right paradigm for some reason?
Get help.
Have you taken your Kostakis refresher course yet?
http://gynotheory.blogspot.com
"Left" and "Right" are fake, non-existent concepts. Or, if there are any actual differences between these supposedly oppositional stances, one is far too blinded by the wretched commonalities they share to make one care to spot the difference.
When a person attaches to themselves the "Right" or "Left" labels, they are marking themselves out as being a non-thinking conformist and an intellectual infant.
"equally a product of the "left" and the "right". "
Yet, you admit that feminists today and from the 60's were all left.
And you accuse me of "not knowing what is being talked about"?
I am not the one invested in the left-right paradigm - YOU ARE.
As I recall, you wrote an essay called, "Feminism is a RIGHT-WING movement".
You are saying that I am invested in the left-right paradigm?
Again, do you want me to list the number of essays bashing right-wing politics in the man-o-sphere vs. the number of essays bashing left-wing politics?
You already know what the result would be.
I am sick of reading essays in the man-o-sphere blaming the right for feminism.
I am becoming annoyed with the foolishness and even flagrant deception behind them.
And oh yeah - you said that MRM/MRA was a "Straw Man" - no it isn't.
A "Straw Man" is term people use to misrepresent their opponent's position - not their own position.
Hence, if somebody calls themselves a "MRA" that is not a "Straw Man" argument - it is simply what they have chosen to call themselves.
"If you disagree with the state - there is something wrong with your mind".
Are you aware of the documentary "Indoctrinate U"?
As I recall, you put a link to it on your blog...
Students are being forced into psychological evaluation for having right-wing political beliefs. This is a fact.
And now - you - tell me to "get help" and claim that I am " invested in the left-right paradigm"
You are the one writing essays called, "Feminism is a right-wing movement"...
The icing on the cake - when I disagree - you tell me to "get help"...
Do you simply not pay attention, or are you invested in the left-right paradigm for some reason?
Think very carefully on this one,Fidelbogen. Remember that Leftists specialize in creating vacuums and then filling them with Leftism. They nuked the nuclear family,replaced it with the state. They destroyed clearly-defined sex roles,and replaced it with androgyny. Right now, they are attempting to tear up the Constitution and replace it with a despotic authoritarian tyranny.
Anything that removes power from the Right,grants it to the Left and their agendas.
If a third option is really what is sought,and it increasingly looks to be more attractive as the Right moves Left,then what is needed is a coherent political platform for this party with built-in defenses against leftist hijacking and rightist dithering and collaboration with the enemy,and it also needs to be culturally popular,with many adherents,presenting a legitimate challenge to the status quo. Before that, moving away from the Right would (literally,if history is any indication) be suicide for men(and women).
If we're going to do this,the time to do it is now,but it needs to be done right.
"..Yet, you admit that feminists today and from the 60's were all left."
I "admitted" no such thing. If you read my original statement, you will see that I was talking about radical feminists -- not simply "feminists".
And yes, I think it was safe to say that the radical feminists were and are Leftist.
But I would still be interested to know why you think that feminism could exist at all minus the existence of cultural gynocentrism within the entire culture?
For example, do you actually believe that gynocentrism is exclusive to the political Left?
"Hence, if somebody calls themselves a "MRA" that is not a "Straw Man" argument - it is simply what they have chosen to call themselves."
MRA/MRM are straw constructions. (Not strawman arguments.)
There is in fact no consistent, underlying thing which maps to the word "MRM" (or the word "MRA").
Historically speaking, these terms have no intellectual pedigree. But they are gleefully used as smearing devices by people who oppose male human rights.
Fidelbogen:
The policies today have moved so far to the Far Left that we're really only talking about moderate vs. extremist liberals now.
It's the same with feminism: radical feminism is left-wing; the social purity feminism preached at AVfM is left-wing too, but it's cloaked as 'conservative.' It's really neo-feminism and neo-conservatism. A real conservative is anti-feminist.
Then a real conservative is anti-gynocentrist?
But the real watershed marker between so-called "left" and "right" would be on the issues of statism and collectivism.
Fidelbogen:
True, but the feminists NEED statism and/or collectivism to enforce their gynocentric policies. What's being promoted at AVfM now is both liberal and feminist, because they want to include MEN under the same umbrella as these statist, feminist policies.
For example, should the government fund abortion, only so long as men have a 'right to choose'? Or fund phony DV industries, so long as men are covered by Obamacare too?
Scrapping both the abortion and DV industries altogether would be a truly conservative position.
@Eric:
"What's being promoted" at AVfM now is not entirely on the surface as yet. ;)
Why do people keep acting like abortion is a "leftist" issue, or that it's some sort of feminist invention. I think any woman who wants an abortion ought to have one, it's best for everyone. We have plenty of unwanted children, children being brought up by children, etc. If the state pays for it, then it probably would pay a lot more if everyone who couldn't pay for an abortion just had the baby - the state would certainly pay the birth of the child, raising the child, supporting the mother if no one else will (or is forced to). Same incidentally with birth control, better off giving people birth control than giving them abortions.
Of course, I'm not religious and I do believe in science, so I don't think a first term abortion is a tragedy, it may prevent a tragic life however. Incidentally if a feminist has an abortion - would you rather she have kids and indoctrinate them? What kid wants to grow up in that?
This is what I mean by the "riders" people keep attaching to the left right issue, and also men's rights. Everyone wants to fit it to their personal beliefs and political view.
Fidelbogen:
What nobody's seen on the surface or otherwise at AVfM is much talk about gender polarity. There's a lot about the so-called 'equality' of men and women; right down to accepting the feminist doctrine of eliminating all sexual differences.
Anon719:
I don't see very much difference between your argument and the Nazi doctrine of exterminating the 'unfit' while making child-rearing the responsibility of the State.
The State should not be involved in birth control, either. In the first place, the percentage of the population intelligent enough to use it are the very ones who benefit society the most by reproducing.
Perhaps this song from Johnny Cash can help solve the impasse of left and right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpu7hsyfGcE&feature=player_embedded
"I don't see very much difference between your argument and the Nazi doctrine of exterminating the 'unfit' while making child-rearing the responsibility of the State."
Confuse issues much? The difference is HUGE. In Nazi doctrine, the state was working to eliminate people it didn't like, I am only saying it is the choice of the individual, and individuals who are pregnant and do not want the baby SELF SELECT as being unfit to have a baby. At another time if they want to, they can have a baby when they have, say, a husband, just for example.
I don't see a lot of difference between the anti-abortionists making up false arguments and comparing their opposition to Hitler, and the feminists attempt to say that men are evil rapists. In both cases, you really are being very dishonest. You don't want people to have abortions, you say and affect to believe anything to win the argument. In fact fertilized eggs in humans are naturally aborted estimated fifty to seventy percent of the time anyway... do suppose Casper the Ghost goes floating off crying through the ether every time that happens too? Does he fly into the arms of Hitler's ghost? Does it seem like I think you are ridiculous and I am laughing at you? Well golly maybe you stop bandying about words like Hitler.
Anon916:
Unlike you, I actually value human life. You believe that someone has the right to impose a death sentence on someone else before birth? Sorry, that makes you no better than a nazi.
Sure, there are spontaneous abortions. That's nature at work. But civilization is about overcoming nature; not returning to the Law of the Jungle like you and your feminist friends want to do.
It's no argument to complain (like you did on the other post) that somehow, because your god, Technology, makes it possible that it is morally or ethically right. Technology can build Hydrogen Bombs too, and use them for ethnic cleansing as well.
I disagree with you = I don't value human life.
You must be quite an authority on all things. However I maintain that first term, normal abortions, and ru38 (morning after drug) do not kill human life, and reduce suffering, and are not part of a leftist conspiracy, they are one of the benefits of living in a free and modern society, not a theocracy.
Feminists do the same thing you're doing here, they move into to men's spaces and take over and then they start bullying anyone who doesn't agree with them, one way in which they might do this is to say that those who disagree with them are like Hitler, and are morally deficient.
Religious people are always trying to say that agnosticism, atheism, humanism, "technology", are religions. I guess this gives you a sort of a 'grappling point', perhaps also reassures you that other people are just like you, and only need correction.
Anon843:
"Feminists do the same thing you're doing here."
You have it backwards again. The whole issue of so-called 'Right to Choose' and so-called 'reproductive rights' generally are wholly feminist doctrines. The stem from feminist doctrines of female sexual and reproductive ownership and the belief that motherhood is a state of oppression.
They talk exactly like you do here; speaking of pregnancy as though it were some kind of disease requiring surgery or medical intervention.
"They are not part of some leftist conspiracy"
Yes they are. The idea of 'reproductive rights' is completely inseparable from the idea that the State has some authority in childbirth, child-rearing, and parentage.
You drag a lot of feminist/leftist terms into it then attempt say see, now you're acting like one. No, just stop telling other people what to do, if you don't want to have a baby, don't have one, shut the fuck up regarding anyone else choice whether or not to have sex, whether to have kids or not - what are you, the local imam? Sounds like.
Anon733:
'You drag a lot of feminist/leftist terms'
No, you're arguing from those standpoints.
So far, you haven't said ONE thing of any substance; except to bang your fist on the table like an angry femihag and complain that it is sooooo unfair that women get pregnant. And to throw out snide accusations of religious fanaticism (guilt by association).
Can you come up with ONE positive argument showing that abortion is somehow beneficial to society?
Freedom is the argument. They are free to make their choice. Your style of argumentation is so dishonest it's despicable, you are a liar.
All cults have the onus to try to expand and to control others in dishonest ways, for example, feminism, religions, and certainly whatever bunch of liars you are sucking up to.
In the future, Eric, I'll not waste a lot of time on you, you are a liar and spout nonsense and make nonsense accusations. I suggest you go back the creation museum, sit on a pretend dinosaur, and do some more thinking. While I will pop your bubble any time it suits me, I won't waste much time disentangling your dishonest style of false debate. My guess is you've got a bunch of Wal-mart cheap knockoff Vancouver vagina benches all set up in your living room, and I bet you're damn proud of them too! :)
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